New owner after a bit of advice

Iron head, so the valve seats should be fine, or you can use Valvemaster...

I run all my Nortons on standard unleaded, with no additives, and I've done plenty of miles with no problem.

Unleaded petrol is not a problem, nor is ethanol.

As a general engineering rule: don't improve something now just in case it might need to be improved at some later date.When and if your valve seats do recede - then repair them. Until then - just enjoy the bike for what it is.Have fun!

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

I run all my Nortons on standard unleaded, with no additives, and I've done plenty of miles with no problem.

Unleaded petrol is not a problem, nor is ethanol.

Ethanol just at 5% is a massive problem Peter and I'm very sorry to hear you say it is not. It has cause lots of damage including topetseal, petrol pipes, corks in taps, Carb O rings, float needle tips and other ruber and plastic parts. As a solvent it has no place in our fuel. It will even strip paint !

If .the enquirer doesn't live in the South West I suggest BP Ultimate for E0or contact Murco for your nearest Murco Super E0.

I carry a plastic petrol container in my car for when I pass an E0 fuel station. As I use only E0 petrol now, I use Redex lead substitute but Miller oil sell a good all in one anti Ethanol/ lead substitute/ octain booster. Ethanol was introduced by stealth in 2006, I found out about it big style in 2007......

I have seen the effects of Ethanol first hand and it's not pretty on old bikes, Even a 1940's Austin car engine it pitted the valves as well as wrecking the fuel system.

Ethanol, like bio diesel is added to road fuelto make up the target for renewable energy, like windmills it is a part of the same scam.

E10 is coming soon and the DfT suggest that there will be no carburrated vehicles on the road by 2018. Go figure.....

Ever heard of Cleveland Discol?

Go for the more expensive super unleaded - less likely to have ethanol in it. Modern petrol strips paint from tanks most effectively. It can also dissolve fuel lines and corrode carb internals. All have happened to me. Otherside, have lots of fun riding the bike. Pre war singles have a magic of their own.

In 1938 fuel had a much lower octane rating than curent unleaded petrol. Several petrol companies, Cleveland & Nation for example, added up to 10% ethananol, instead of lead. I agree with Peter, if ethanol is now causing problems it is probably due to modern paints, and plastics, being of a different composition. Remember the hysteria, when leaded petrol was banned? Everyone was screaming classic vehicle engines would be ruined, it did not happen. OK, a few people have had problems, and blamed them on ethanol, but was this really the cause, or just a result of normal wear?

My empirical opinion is that petrol has never been better than it is now. Modern production methods and quality control give us a consistent product of a high standard.

When I shipped my bike to the USA a few years ago it it ran on their 15% mix for nearly 3,000 miles with no running problems, and I don't think any of the other Brit bikes sent there for the IONA rally had any ethanol problems either. Due to the hurricane they stayed in the USA for a long time, probaly 4 months before we got them back. When mine got home it stood unused for another 6 months with that 15% petrol in the tank. When I finally started it, it started after just a few kicks, and ran perfectly. There is no sign of any corrosion in the fuel system.

My Commando and singles have gulped down whatever is handy in this country and the 10% stuff on the European mainland, without any problem and again no sign of any problem in their fuel systems.. They have all stood for long periods and started ok without anything more being needed than the pilt jet/air way needing cleaning sometimes.

I have had no problem with rubber, plastic, cork, aluminium or steel components. But I concede that ethanol will cause problems with tank linners and fibre glass tanks.

My Commando has done 55,000 miles on unleaded petrol without any valveseat problems. My pre unleaded 1980 Vauxall Cavalier did over a 100,000 miles on unleaded with any valveseat problems.

The amount of miles we will do on our old Brit bikes unleaded will never be a problem.

Remember in the early 80s they added sulphur to petrol so there was that eggy/vegetable smell to the exhausts? Now that was really a problem with sulphuric acid corrosion in the exhausts. I was forever paying out for new exhausts in those days.

I think ethanol gets the blame for many cases of incompetence, bad maintainance and the sheer age of our machines. There is also some companies selling products that benefit from propagating these scare stories.

Sorry John / Peter, I will have to agree to disagree. First of all you mention 15% Ethanol in the USA. I visit on a regular basis and I'll tell you that it is 10% in the pumps and marked up as such. 15% was passed by the Obama government but not yet in use. One reason is because the high number of vehicles that won't run on E15 and the other reason is because of last years' drought there was a shortage of corn. The high grade petrol in the USA is 93 RON and much of it is Ethanol free (E0) However, most of the lower grades do contain up to 10% Ethanol and @87 and 89 RON respectively.Thankfully in the USA there is a network of E0 petrol, unlike the dogs dinner we have here. That 15% you thought you had Peter was actually 10%. you will have also noticed a lower MPG. I assume you drain your carb and empty your tank before a lay up. If not then check out Ethanol -water separation! When you get fuel spraying onto a hot engine because your fuel pipe has been attacked with Ethanol then come back and tell me that is safe. Even Les Emery has stated that this stuff is going to kill someone before long.

Last time I heard of Discol at the pumps was in the 1960's

Glad you accept that Ethanol turns Petseal to goo andall that involves and as Gordon says; it will also strip your paint etc.

What are your reasons for supporting Ethanol Peter/ John? That alone worthy of debate.....

My Land Rover had the flexible fuel pipe to the carb turn porous and, with the electric fuel pump running, spray petrol all over the exhaust manifold. So nearly a catastrophe. My wife's Yamaha's carbs have corroded jets - a fairly major strip and rebuild job for each carb - all due to ethanol in petrol. Just be prudent - buy super grade and minimise the problem.

I do not "support" ethanol, but neither do I accept all the horror stories spread about it. Maybe it might dissolve petseal, but, since I have never had a leaking fuel tank, I have never used it. In the 50's I always used Discol, or National Bensol, in my Dominator (when I could not get 140 octane Avgas!). Never had a problem. I now run my '54 Dominator on whatever is available at the pump. Occasionally there is a smear on the chrome tank, but this happens regardless of what fuel is used, and, a quick spray of WD40 removes it. My fuel pipe is clear, nylon reinforced, plastic and has not been changed for over 10 years. Peter left his fuel in the tank for four months, and his bike started with no problem, it would not have done so if water had accumulated in the tank. Old bikes, and cars, are bound to have problems from time to time, but don't scream "it is all caused by the dreaded ethanol".

But a lot is...

Neil.

I am far from being a supporter of ethonal- the opposite in fact- it disgusts me that on a world that has millions of people starving to death we turn land over to growing fuel for cars.

The whole ethanol / wind generator / green fuel industry is a scam to cream subsidies from the government.

That is my view on that, but I also say that from experience I have had no issues related to ethonal. So when I hear about people saying their bike will not start because the petrol is four weeks old I can only assume that they must be doing something else wrong.

The fuel lines on my Commando are the ones it came out of the factory with and beside being a bit stiff are as good as the day they were made. I never drain tanks or carbs before laying a bike up.

My bikes normaly just have whatever is the cheapest at Tesco because that is handy for me, but last year because I was away from home the Commando was treated to some expensive fancy Shell petrol. It was a cold damp night, and wthin a few mile the carbs had iced up. So I don't believe paying over the odds price wise is a quarantee of anything. In fact I think the high RON suff has more ethonol in it. It's a lottery really and nobody knows what is in what.

Last December I snapped my Achilles tendon so my bike were just left for 4 months. All started and ran ok with just a few kicks.

If Les Emery told me the time I would check the clock, and that type of comment he made is just typical of the unhelpful over reaction a lot people make regarding ethonol.

That's just my opinion and experiences.

Unleaded, as has been mentioned, is not something to worry unduly about, as has been suggested, run your bike on it, keep an eye on your valve clearances & only be concerned if they close up significantly, at which point you can take the necessary action.

Ethanol however is a different matter. Itâs not going to render our machines unusable, but it does have the potential to cause us more than a few headaches. Iâm not sure about itâs effect on cork as I know of many cork sealed taps & other cork seals that are showing no signs of problems, it WILL, however, rot certain types of fuel line, certain gasket materials, fibreglass & can cause problems with some metals, many of which are used in the manufacture of carburettors. It is also a very effective paint stripper if not removed from painted surfaces fairly promptly. I paint cars & bikes for a living, 75% of my work being classic vehicles & over the last couple of years, I have seen a massive increase motorcycle petrol tank paintwork, both on old & modern stuff & virtually always due to bad staining &/or paint lifting from around the filler where the cap has not sealed 100%, allowing a little seepage when the tank is filled to the top. The bad news is, & I have talked to many paint manufacturers about this, there is no ethanol proof paint available at this time. The best we can do is a high solids 2K solid colour system, ie no lacquer, no good if you want a metallic, candy or polychromatic finish, in which case a high solids 2K lacquer is the best currently available, but it will stain very easily with repeated or prolonged contact with ethanol based fuels. Best advice I can give is if you spill some on your paintwork, wash, or at least wipe it off as soon as you can, then if there is any marking it is usually easily removed with âTâ cut or similar.

Regards, Tim

Mark, I run all my singles on straight 40 but after a few good threads on this siteit would appear that Straight 30 would be better for winter and below average summer temperatures. You live and learn.

John / Peter, Ethanol damage reports are not scare story's they are fact experienced first hand. You have a point however,about the correlation with high RON and Ethanol, at least in the UK. I know that Tesco's momentum super unleaded can contain up to 7% Ethanol, the legal upper limit without having to display a warning. That is what messed up my Model 50 big time. My ES2 was affected too but by then I knew what the problem was, it had little useand Ijust needed to remove the Petseal and Ethanol contaminated petrol.

I spend a bit of time contacting the petrol retailers on a regular basis and less time more recently. The reason for for less time nowis that there is only BP with a wide network offering Ultimatewith NO Ethanol. (Except in the South West) I'll be contacting them again after Christmas because they always tell me that the situation can change as they are permitted to add 5% Ethanol. Naturally BP are aware they have a market. Murco Super unleaded will remain E0, Ethanol free for the foreseeable future where supplied from their own refinery. This is important because some Murco stations are supplied by other oil companies. (BP Ultimate, outside ofSW England is supplied separate to ordinary unleaded) The Murco in Mill Lane Beverley, East Yorkshire for example is supplied from the Murco refinery and so their Super unleaded is free of Ethanol. Mark, I suggest you e-mail Chris Blake at Murphy Oil to find where your nearest Murco E0 station is. Remember, it has to be supplied from their own refinery.

There are also smaller retailers that supply E0 petrol, usually those with Classic licenses, like those who are Bayford Thrust 4* Leaded agents.

4* Leaded is getting hard to get simply because (As well as price) the remaining small outlets can't break the bulk required to make a delivery possible. BS4040 is still possible if there is enough demand and is E0. Northern Energy on Ripon Road, Harrogate is one such outlet.

Just remember John/Peter, Ethanol is 35% oxygen, just think about how that will have effect on your carb set up, perhaps without you knowing about it until too late..Rather like the fuel hose on my Commando that started spraying fuel from several small holeson the hot barrel. Thank goodness there wasn't a fire and that I had a reserve tap and line.

Finally Mark, the RedX lead substitute works well with unleaded although not always necessary unless you are using your bike hard with big throttle openings for long periods. Check your valve clearances once in a while and monitor. But, if you find you might have to use Ethanol contaminated petrol then the Miller agent will help with the damaging effects of Ethanol but itis not a cure and is another cost. The answer is 4* Leaded or E0, Ethanol free petrol. Use it or lose it!

Good luck

So, how come Peter, and I, have no problem with modern fuels? My bike will be 60 years old next year, and I will be 77. Ethanol or no, I expect the bike will outlast me!

John, I hope your bike and Peter's will continue to run on E5 or whatever for the duration. Because you have not yet suffered a breakdown does not mean that damage has not yet occurred. The fuel; used in the USA might have been E0, especiallyif 93 RON was used? For the lower grades, premium 87and Silver 89 RON is up to 10%contamination but there is a network of E0 petrol at all grades you can google.Here you may have been lucky to have been supplied fuel with a lower Ethanol content than 5%. I have a letter from Tesco stating that their unleaded 95 RON could have anywhere between 0 and 5%.

Ethanol is only added to the tanker and sealed directly before it leaves the refinery because of its hygroscopic nature. You may be aware that petrol pump hoseshad to be changed for this so called modern fuel. guess what, it rotted them. Do you remember the Tesco and Morrison SE corridor breakdowns in 2006costing a fortune with new oxygen meters stripping demand. That was the start of Ethanol by stealth. Not good to have this stuff in a vented tank!

There are a lot of variables and many riders I know ofnot yet suffered obvious Ethanol contamination damage. My question to you then is how come Gordon, Ian myself and so many more have suffered Ethanol damage. And I can confirm that the problems have stopped once I found out what the agent causing the problem was and made sure I didn't use it ever again. That was the cure. The government are only interested in achieving their renewable fuels target, your Norton is not important to them. The day may come when you you don't have a choice of E0. (Except for light aircraft where Ethanol contamination is not allowed)

Where I said Ian I meant Tim. It's late.......