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1974 Model frame/engine nos. - advice please

Submitted by patrick_wills on Thu, 05/07/2012
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Commando

Please can anyone advise when the 850 Commandos ceased to be produced with matching engine and frame numbers?

I've been looking at a tatty but original 850 MkIIA, M reg Roadster, and everything looks fine. However, my only concern is that the frame and engine numbers do not match. The first three digits of the engine number are 311, and the frame number's first digits are 104.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Patrick

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 06/07/2012

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Patrick,

Surprisingly perhaps, it sounds as if this machine is most likely all in order. You are correct in believing that post-war Nortons had the same Engine No. and Frame No. The exception to this rule is the period around the time you have stated above, where Norton had some Commando frames made in Italy.

This causes confusion quite regularly as the Frame Nos. for these were 6-digit numbers in the 100000 series.

You should check that the V5C document is correct on this. If not, when you take the bike for an MoT test, the sytem will throw up an error when the tester tries to enter the 311*** number from the VIN plate on the headstock. I've been there.

Apparently, one difference with these frames is that the tubing is fractionally different in diameter, being a metric equivalent to an imperial size. This does not matter until you try to install one of the alternative head steady arrangments and find that it will not clamp to the under-spine tube without the use of some packing shims.

Submitted by patrick_wills on Fri, 06/07/2012

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Chris

Thanks very much for the information. I have since found more info on the Italian frame period, and, as you say, it would appear that this bike is a bona fide bike. I now have to decide whether the fact that it is a one owner bike with a known history makes it worth a couple of thousand more than a similar model with multiple owners and an unknown history!

Submitted by richard_payne on Fri, 06/07/2012

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Dyno Dave's website has some useful confirmation of what Chris has said relating to the numbers.

I'm not sure if it has been proven that only Italian frames had the separate stamped number. I also wouldn't be too concerned about the quality. They were made by Verlicchi who are not some sort of back street operation.

If you're buying as a restoration project then I wouldn't consider the one owner aspect raises the value but if despite being 'tatty' (one man's tat is another man's patina !), it has been well maintained mechanically and the seller is trustworthy then it may be worthwhile.

I'd be looking more for damaged fasteners and castings and general bodges. If it's 'hanging' then the one owner thing doesn't count for much. I've met more than a few Norton owners whom I wouldn't trust to maintain a fairy cycle. Some of them have been club members too....

Submitted by patrick_wills on Sat, 07/07/2012

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Thanks for the comments Richard, the website link was useful.

Also it is interesting to read your comments about one-owner bikes. I think you're absolutely right in judging a bike by its condition, and once I see a bodge I tend to lose interest on the basis that if that is the way they work, what else have they bodged. Having considered everything, I have decided probably not to proceed with this particular purchase as it needs a fair bit of work (which I don't mind) but is overpriced on the basis of its one-owner credentials.

Talking of bodge, one of the worst bikes I have ever seen (not a Norton) was being sold by an employee of the Transport and Road Research Laboratory. It wasn't just a bodge, it was dangerous, and this guy worked for the people that formulate our transport strategy!

Submitted by paul_edwards on Mon, 09/07/2012

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Hi,iv'e just bought a 1974 mk111 interstate,it was restored 6 years ago and the bloke I bought it off had only done approx 300 miles on it,iv'e tweeked the carbs up and put some wd 40 into the throttle cable now the bike ticks over like a swiss watch!iv'e had several triumphs and a couple of beezas,but never a norton till now,it looks like the bike is wet sumping, are they all the same when they've been standing?the bike had a new frame when restored but I have the original vin plate,is there any way round of putting the original plate on and contacting dvla,will await any reply and any tips I might come in handy.Regards from Paul.

 


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