hello, i am new to this forum....i have spent much of my life on the dark side (Jap and Italian) but i would like to buy a Navigator.....there are a couple around at the moment, one here
and another here
that latter being more expensive.
My question is, i really dont like the enclosed look, so, would it be a simple case of removing the rear tinware (and storing them carefully away) to reveal the oil tank and battery box (i'm assuming that's what is on the opposite side) as per the Stolze machine above? Or, does the rear tinware hide a more utilitarian arrangement underneath?
As you can tell, i know very little about these bikes.
Has anyone any knowledge of either of the above bikes? (i would have preferred a machine needing work and a little cheaper).
You really do not want to remove the tinware from a Delux, the attached pictures shows what you end up with.
If you want something needing work and cheaper then you need to stay away from the dealers.
They do come up in Roadholder / NOC web on occasion. Just keep haunting the pages / ebay etc.
If you want a Standard Navigator try and find one that is as original as possible. Trying to source original 'tin ware' is difficult, particularly the 6 1/2" headlight, mudgaurds, styling panels behind the engine and seat. Original (Hepolite) pistons and new cam followers are in very short supply too so proof of a recent top end rebuild is always good news! A well sorted Navigator is a lovely bike - particularly when converted to 12v electrics and electronic ignition. From personal experience it transforms the bike and vastly improves reliability and performance.
thanks for the replies.....i did wonder whether that might be the case, Tony
Just to be different back in the day I had a deluxe that had its panels removed, the sides were tidied up and Aluminium mudguards fitted, so anything is possible, but I would tend to agree that today you’d be better finding a standard bike. As said tinware is hard to come by, and have a good look at the wheels and forks, all repairable but add to the cost considerably. It’s easy to pay £300 for a wheel rebuild, new fork stanchions and seals bushes etc will be another £ 150. Silencers are available but again more money! My advice is if you are looking for a runner get the best you can afford, and look at the receipts etc but watch prices - at the moment they have gone silly but will I suspect calm down as furlough etc ends. £3 - 3500 used to buy you a top class Navigator and will do again I suspect.
On the face of it the deluxe bike in the adver looks quite nice, and for a dealer that isn’t ridiculously expensive. But you’d need to see the history.
However the standard bike is not so good, it looks like it started off life as a deluxe, you can see the mountings for the enclosure on the frame. Standard oil tank and battery box have been added later. It also has wonky footrests and aluminium mudguards ( which I have no objection to) but it does reduce the value. It will need money throwing at it to make it right.
thanks again....yes, the price for the other one is over £5K
The first one looks very shiny - its an indicator that it might be nice under the skin as well - but not always! However, it would be a shame to buy it & strip everything off - and it will never look right, anyway - there will be brakets in the way as well, etc.
The 2nd bike you provide a link to is a real dogs dinner - stay away!
If you like the style of the standard model, then try to find a nice one thats complete. There are two styles/colour schemes. Birmingham bikes were two tone, Dove Grey frame & mudguards with Ever Ready Battery Blue top half of fuel tank, headlight, battery box & oil tank. For correct colours use British Leyland Arabian Grey & Ford Fjord Blue.
Plumstead bikes had a black frame, with black mudguards (or chrome option) & Headlight , with Polychromatic Blue tank, battery box & oil tank. Vauxhall Blue Starfire I found to be quite close.
Two pictures attached - the blue & white one I restored & sold on - while the later black-framed bike is my own trusty steed from 1964
thanks Andy.....but, if i did find an incomplete/rundown Deluxe, would there be any difficult-to-reverse modifications i would need to do to turn it into a Standard?
Don’t tell anyone, but I’m using a deluxe frame to build a standard Navigator from a box of bits - primarily because it’s the only Navigator frame I have. To convert it to standard you will ideally need to cut off the mounting lugs for the enclosure and weld on some lugs for the oil tank and battery box. Although I guess you could prob use p clips if you wanted to. You’d then need to source the oil tank, battery box, styling panels and mudguards and stays/brackets etc. You may also need to fiddle with the seat mounting at the rear. The other difference with the deluxe frame is that the subframe crossmember is bolted rather than welded in place not that makes much difference.
Im doing it because I just have a box (well rather a lots of boxes to be honest!) of bits and still have another deluxe frame if it’s ever needed
one other thing, is there a sure way of knowing that the engine is a Navigator engine?
The engine number starts with a 19 , a jubilee starts with a 17. There are a different number of fins on the barrel but can’t remember what they are !
Hi Adrian, Dan is right, the Navigator barrel is a one piece casting and has 7 fins, the Jubilee has two seperate barrels with 6 fins.
Hi Adrian. I am the only person on the planet that REALLY likes the enclosed De Luxe versions of the Dominator and Navigator! My favourite colours are the blue and dove grey, but I have a black & grey 1961 Navigator that cost me £1,200 about 9 years ago ( or was it 10?). There's a slight lack of fit of the panels as a previous owner had made up a brass bracket for one of the fasteners, but it still looks fine.
Because so few/no-one liked the D/L panels, they were removed and scrapped, so they are now rare and more valuable (?) than the standard type.
Mine needs a carburettor service kit, battery and wiring tidying and I will fit a new rear chain and sprockets, but it's worth quite a bit more than I paid for it - WITH the panels! Go for it. Your work would be cut out to remove them and all that goes with it - as has been said.
You are not alone Lionel. I am very happy with my 99 DL . I have a recent photo of an OIM Laxey Norton meeting with 3 red and dove DL Dommys parked together. Probably the most common Norton models there!. Most unusual. I think my bikes lines are improved by the addition of a set of Streamlined Craven Dolomite panniers . At one time my bike was sporting a set of very rare engine and leg enclosure panels .
Here's a photo of mine that I sold to a guy in Hong Kong a couple of years ago:-
I took the Avon fairing off , too heavy and bulky to push around , no real benefit unless you are doing long distance in the winter or fast motorway. Even then reflected noise was tiring.
It has been done - but its not very good. To fit the oil tank, you will have to remove the battery holder brackets for a start. Also, on the D/Lux frame - the frame member that runs vertically up from the swing arm is bolted on - on the standard model its welded about an inch forward at the top, to create room for the oil tank and battery box. And so on....
Its better to stick to a Standard frame, if you want a Standard bike. Good Luck.
had a 'Standard-ised' DL, but sold on ebay within a few hours