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Newbie - Help! Lots of questions ?

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Hello all

I’ve joined on behalf of an 88 year old friend that doesn’t have the inclination to get involved in the internet.  He has a 1973 750 Norton Commando, he has issues with it running well. It runs ok over 2000revs but dies at less than that. He has fitted a Paxton (Pazon?)  electronic ignition, had two new carbs fitted set the crank timing to 10 Rollers between the two dots. And is now frustrated and a bit lost. I said I would get on to the owners club and ask.  He has wondered if there is  possibly some sort of race cam fitted?

Is it possible for the cam timing to be wrong and if so can it be adjusted.

On the left hand side casing where the cam ends, he has seen other engines with a breather there his engine hasn’t got one, why?

Any help would be really good.  he wants to get it running well so he can sell it, he is too old to kick it over now but won’t let go until it’s sorted properly.

 

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The engine breather moved around quite a bit over the years and models.

Seriously though, and without wishing to be nasty, your friend obviously doesn't want it or know much about it. Why not sell it on "as is" to someone who wants it and has the time and knowledge to fix it. Or take it somewhere to have it sorted - if you are anywhere near Birmingham I can recommend someone who'll do that.

I’ve suggested this to him but he is old school and can’t let it go without it working. Plus there is the not knowing what’s wrong and the satisfaction of getting it right which we all love. So to help him out from the knowledge on here would be great, plus I’ll learn and maybe if I get interested in it I might even buy it.  My interest is in Enfields and Matchless’s but there’s always room for another. 

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Is the ignition drive not on the end of the camshaft with the Pazon set-up ?  The sender plate for the timing usually replaces the advance/retard device on a standard Commando by fitting it into the taper drive in the camshaft. Therefore I am not sure why you mention the ten rollers between the two dots.  You are probably talking about the valve timing marks on the camshaft sprocket and intermediate pinion ?  Obviously if you change their position with relation to each other you will need to retime the ignition as well.  Remove the plugs and get the engine to 28 deg before TDC using the marks on the alternator rotor against the graticule in the primary chaincase. There is a screwed cover with a screwdriver slot to remove at front of the chaincase.  Now at the timing-side end of the old points cover, look at the position of the two sender magnets and see if they are approximately in-line with the coils on the timing pick-up plate. There are slots in the plate for adjustment. When the bike is running if you have a strobe lamp you can move the plate in small increments to get the timing spot on. If you haven't got a strobe use you ear to get the tickover speed you desire.  If it will not run under 2k rpm check your pilot airscrews are 1 1/4 turns out.  Are the new carbs the Premier Mk1 Concentrics  or the original old type ?  Make sure the air balance pipe is fitted properly.  Good Luck, we all get old sooner or later.

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Always worth eliminating the simple obvious things....

I spent days checking my Boyer ignition and wiring to cure misfiring and stalling on my '73. Plugs looked fine. Swapped in 2 new ones and it was an instant cure. 

 

 

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Ian, I would suggest you tell us were you are located and perhaps someone close by can have a look at the bike and offer some help and or advise. It's useful talking about issues on forums but being able to see and hear the bike is a very good way to deal with problems, I'm new here as well but what I can tell you there are some very well informed Norton folk here that are generally very willing to help. Good luck chum.

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I agree with Howard about the ignition timing and the Pazon unit. The initial manual set up described by Pazon is only approximate and should be checked with a timing disc on the end of the alternator rotor and then using a strobe. A garage should not charge a great deal to do it if you are not confident. Timing discs can be bought on ebay for a few pound or you could even print off a free one from the internet and glue it to stiff card. If the timing of the Pazon unit is off the auto advance will not work effectively.

Pazon have a a user guide (I may have chosen the wrong model):

http://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/PA2L.pdf

Dennis

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Thank you for your help, I’ll get back to my friend dereck and have a look at the timing side,the valve timing that is and check with his pazon unit is set up correctly. Failing that I might see if he’s interested in ever getting some help from more knowledgeable people than me.

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It appears that we have a combat engine, C stamped on top of the head.

I’ve popped round to see Dereck with a view to trying to start it, it fires on easy start for a second and then stops, when we remove the plugs they’re wet.  A bit lost again.  It is really hard to kick over too, I’m 55 and quite used to starting British single but after 10 kicks its a bit much is this normal? 

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If it is a 73 then the combat head is not original. If a combat head is put on a normal 750 bottom end then with the std cam and 10:1 compression it will be hard to kick over. If it is on a combat lower end the the larger valve overlap makes it easier to kick over.

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Thanks john, seems like we’re starting to get somewhere and find out a bit about it. Would someone have done this if they were racing it? There seems to be a few non standard engine mount brackets the bike had a set of rear sets with it, the vin number plate is missing and the frame just has the number stamped on it.  We have considered that it might have been a bike used for racing, maybe the frame has been replaced etc, engine fiddled with or perhaps it’s just junk put together. The bike did run but not tick over, the engine was stripped because it was tight, the big end was worn, that was sorted and rebuild, now it won’t run. It only fires on easy start for a second and it’s really hard to kick over.

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When the motor is not on compression does it move freely ?. Not unknown to have a tight big end after work done.  Must not be run if so.

 


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