Electra rebuild

Hello there,

That's the way to buy them in the first place. It's amazingly complete so should be very original but still a lot of work and expense to get it pristine.

Excellent photos. Are you now up and running?

Patrick

I'm just starting an Electra rebuild from several boxes of parts so your photos are really helpful. Please keep them coming! Thanks,Maurice

Ian,

I wish you had put these photos up eight years ago when I started my Electra rebuild. It is a travesty that the NOC have never produced a video of a lightweight rebuild. Your photos are, in many ways even better.

I can see from your photos that my clutch is probably more worn than I thought. I'm not sure I saw any cork inserts on the inner race plate as you show. Something else to check before summer and might explain why it slips.

I see your clutch cable has an adjuster where it enters the gearbox. This is a clutch cable from the 'early' Jub and Nav. All clutch cables on later gearbox lightweights have an adjuster mid cable. If it works for you, fine, but you will be caught unawares if you buy the original replacement.

You show all the clutch plates laid out before fitting. The thick plain plate is shown wrong way round. It should be fitted with the stepped side inwards, and may explain why your clutch spring retainers look so near to the end of the stud threads.

As for the rest, I get the impression your engine has done hardly any miles. At 15 to 20k miles the gearbox sprocket is usually losing a tooth and the clutch centre and drum are usually indented by the plate tangs and the tangs show signs of wear. It is a delight to see how a lightweight engine was put together when new, and a source of information for all.

I'm self taught like everyone else and ready to be corrected on these comments.

Wonderful. Please keep it up and include some cycle parts too.

Peter Holland

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

If your interested in seeing my Electra undergoing restoration I've create a page for it here... (nothing commercial...)

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

The only thing I'm missing from the bike is the sheet metal panels that go behind the carb and wrap around the frame. Can anyone help?

Have a look at NOC Shop and search for:-

SS19 E5_23168/9

Are these the parts you mean ?

Regards

Tony

edit -just noticed - out of stock.

I believe they had a batch built a while ago so it would be worth contacing anasking if they are going to do another batch.

Tony

See attached for the correct looking Clutch cable

Anfy S

----------------------

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Ian,

I wish you had put these photos up eight years ago when I started my Electra rebuild. It is a travesty that the NOC have never produced a video of a lightweight rebuild. Your photos are, in many ways even better.

I can see from your photos that my clutch is probably more worn than I thought. I'm not sure I saw any cork inserts on the inner race plate as you show. Something else to check before summer and might explain why it slips.

I see your clutch cable has an adjuster where it enters the gearbox. This is a clutch cable from the 'early' Jub and Nav. All clutch cables on later gearbox lightweights have an adjuster mid cable. If it works for you, fine, but you will be caught unawares if you buy the original replacement.

You show all the clutch plates laid out before fitting. The thick plain plate is shown wrong way round. It should be fitted with the stepped side inwards, and may explain why your clutch spring retainers look so near to the end of the stud threads.

As for the rest, I get the impression your engine has done hardly any miles. At 15 to 20k miles the gearbox sprocket is usually losing a tooth and the clutch centre and drum are usually indented by the plate tangs and the tangs show signs of wear. It is a delight to see how a lightweight engine was put together when new, and a source of information for all.

I'm self taught like everyone else and ready to be corrected on these comments.

Wonderful. Please keep it up and include some cycle parts too.

Peter Holland

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

If your interested in seeing my Electra undergoing restoration I've create a page for it here... (nothing commercial...)

Previously Tony Ripley wrote:

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

The only thing I'm missing from the bike is the sheet metal panels that go behind the carb and wrap around the frame. Can anyone help?

Have a look at NOC Shop and search for:-

SS19 E5_23168/9

Are these the parts you mean ?

Regards

Tony

edit -just noticed - out of stock.

I believe they had a batch built a while ago so it would be worth contacing anasking if they are going to do another batch.

Tony

Hi Ian, I have a set of Panels bought from the Clubs stock some time ago and they are available at cost (club price £144.64) + postage if you still need them, give me a call.

Bob Nicholas 01934 852259 North Somerset.

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Bob, Yes it's me that needs them but that's a bit more than I want to spend. at the moment. I got the whole bike for less than that! Thanks for the offer though - much appreciated.

Ian

That's OK. I ended up buying a set from a member that cost me about the same money but they were painted therefore I have the Club ones spare. Anyone else interested???

You did well to buy at the money your indicating even if it's missing a few bits. I have one on the road and have a second in the process of rebuilding. I need the money as well!!

Bob Nicholas.

Hello Ian,

I am indeed impressed with the quality of your work - very thorough and your pictures are superb.

Where are you by the way? I thought you were in Scotland but where do you get acetone in QUART cans? Are you in USA?

Patrick

Very interesting - keep them coming.The starter solenoid looks to be the same as fitted to the 1963/4 MGB.

The solenoid is still available new both as replica and geuine Lucas. They are very useful when working on a race car in the paddock as you can fire up the engine by just pressing the rubber button on the bottom.

Patrick

Hi Ian,

All the oil tank and battery box mounts are supposed to be a rubber grommet with a steel tube inside. The rubber hardly gets squashed at all when the bolt is tightened.

Norton in their wisdom allowed for tolerances byenlarging the lower mounting holes in theouter frames. Your second to last picture clearly shows howthe steel tube, meant to be inside the grommet, has been driven into the enlarged frame mounting hole. It is a great pain to find this out when you have the frame professionally painted with the offending steel spacer driven into the mounting hole. Adding a washer between frame and spacer cures the problem.

I think your headlight shell is from another model. The Electra shell never had those two white-ishtell-tales on it. The mileage indicated may have come with the replacement shell. Your engine internals look low(er) mileage.

Thanks for putting all the photos on the web.

Good luck

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

More photos have been added. Cylinder heads are on and we're moving on to the chassis...

Ian

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

I think your headlight shell is from another model. The Electra shell never had those two white-ishtell-tales on it. The mileage indicated may have come with the replacement shell. Your engine internals look low(er) mileage.

I have never owned an Electra and I do know that Peter has a superb Electra , so he does know his Electras. My 1961 Navigator has similar tell-tales (but in red plastic) and a previous 1963 Jubilee had the same as well (also in red). So the headlight shell is Norton - maybe yours has lived in a hot climate and the colour has faded to whitish. I think the tell tales were deleted on later models of Jubilees and Navigators but I don't know exactly when or if they were originally fitted to Electras.

Patrick

Hi Ian,

Both theNavigator and ElectraI've ownedhad the 1964-on wider Roadholders. Identified by a steering lock on the top yoke and lock stops welded to the front frame member adjacent to lower steering bearing. You have the earlier narrow forks with bolt-on lock stopand Patrick may be correct that tell/tales were discontinued with the wider forks.

The styling panels your bike lacks are held on by the 5/16 BSC outer threads on the long, cross frame,double threaded stud under the seat. Also by the thin nuts you found on the end of the swinging arm pivot stud.

Your centre stand has been repaired. Looks like the originalpedal broke off and was welded on again at a strange angle. Looks OK now, but it might foul a regular silencer. There's probably a picture of the lightweight centre stand, with foot pedal,on the NOC spares website. Pricey though. Navigators and Jubilees had a similar stand without the foot pedal. A 3/16 pin, about one inch long,was inserted just above the foot on the left leg. You'll see where if you look at the casting. You might decide to remove the welded pedal. Hope you read this before the new paint has dried.

Why does it always look so sunny in your photos? I'm beginning to think you must live in Australia.

Great photos

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Patrick,

The bike sat out in desert heat of southern California for at least 30 years. I'm sure the red has just faded away. It's amazing that it's actaully in as good a condition as it is considering.There might be remnants of it when I take it apart. The frame is all dissasembled now and I've posted new photos.

Ian

A bit of little Known lore, Lucas headlamp shells were finished by Lucas, so its normal for them to be a completely different shade of colour from the rest of the bike.Especially after a few years in the sun.

Ian,

The lighter springs in roadholder forks intended for Navigator and Electra are colour coded green. Yours are exactly correct and I'm sure they will be of correct length for your Electra. Everything, other than the spring, is common with norton dominator.

On my Electra previous owner had found longer 5/16 ins cycle bolts to secure the strengthening plates to the headstock. Still in place when I got it, these had made very severe gouges in the thread of the triple tree and must have had a dire effect on the steering. You are lucky to have an original build.

The welding on my head steady bracket, the one you powder coated, ran over the side and prevented it clamping properly in the front down tube. Soon smoothed with a file it was just one of the faults Norton built into my machine.

You may find the grit or sand blasting of the frame components prior to powder coating causes some distortion. With paint in the holes as well, prepare yourself for some resistance as the final bolts and studs are presented.

Good luck

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Added some new photos today. Frame coming together and forks dissassembly. Interesting thing, the fork springs have green paint on the top. According to the old Mick Hemmings and Brian Crighton article on roadholder forks, solo bikes had red painted springs, sidecars had green,. Also, my springs are spot on 18" long, according to mick hemmings they should be 18.687. Any thoughts?

I managed to catch the centre stand before it went to the powdercoaters and I see what you mean about the repair.

Hi Ian,

Your pictures are proving very useful as I have just spotted that there is a riveted on cable clip on the right hand side of the front mudguard which is missing on my Navigator's chrome mudguard.

When I stripped my forks down I measured the spring at 475mm. which is very much in line with your quoted figure of 18.687 inches but I am fairly certain that I have Dominator springs. (no colour code on them). The original correct Navigator/Electra spring with the green paint is a bit shorter than the Dominator one so your springs are probaby near enough right.

Patrick.

Hi Patrick - just spotted your note.

The cable clip on the front mudguard was not riveted on as you write - the original was spot welded on. - See picture (with apologies for the state of my Navi...)

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Hi Ian,

Your pictures are proving very useful as I have just spotted that there is a riveted on cable clip on the right hand side of the front mudguard which is missing on my Navigator's chrome mudguard.

When I stripped my forks down I measured the spring at 475mm. which is very much in line with your quoted figure of 18.687 inches but I am fairly certain that I have Dominator springs. (no colour code on them). The original correct Navigator/Electra spring with the green paint is a bit shorter than the Dominator one so your springs are probaby near enough right.

Patrick.

Hi Peter & All,

Just to add my two pennyworth into the Tell-Tale indicator lamps on the headlamp shell. (I have yet to see the photos, but think I know what you are referring to).

On the first 1959 Jubilees, with the 5" headlamp shell (held in place by an extension of the fork crown), there were two red tell-tales fitted, to act as an ignition warning light. They were 'powered' from the speedo bulb, which was on all the time the ignition was on. It did not go out (car-fashion) when charging. This led to several 'problems'...

1) They could not be seen in daylight anyway.

2) No indication of correct battery charging.

3) At night-time, they would glow red all the time.

4) Premature bulb failure - as running all the time.

So, in 1960, with the introduction of the larger 6 1/2" headlamp, the Tell-Tales were done away with, and the speedo bulb was energised from the tail lamp circuit instead. Consequently, no Navigators or Electras had Tell-Tales & only early Jubiless had them. Of course, Norton being Norton - some may have slipped through as the same 6 1/2" headlamp shell was being used on other bikes in the AMC stable, notably the 250 and 350cc AJS & Matchless single 'lightweights'. Maybe they retained the Tell-Tale lights?

HTH

Andy S

==========

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Hi Ian,

All the oil tank and battery box mounts are supposed to be a rubber grommet with a steel tube inside. The rubber hardly gets squashed at all when the bolt is tightened.

Norton in their wisdom allowed for tolerances byenlarging the lower mounting holes in theouter frames. Your second to last picture clearly shows howthe steel tube, meant to be inside the grommet, has been driven into the enlarged frame mounting hole. It is a great pain to find this out when you have the frame professionally painted with the offending steel spacer driven into the mounting hole. Adding a washer between frame and spacer cures the problem.

I think your headlight shell is from another model. The Electra shell never had those two white-ishtell-tales on it. The mileage indicated may have come with the replacement shell. Your engine internals look low(er) mileage.

Thanks for putting all the photos on the web.

Good luck

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

More photos have been added. Cylinder heads are on and we're moving on to the chassis...

Ian

Hi Ian,

Another fine looking Electra is to be found at the National Motorcycle Museum, near Coventry

Andy S

===================

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Thaks for the comments Peter. I see what you mean about the headlight tell tales. The shell seems to be the right size and shape. Wonder what it came from? I've got a lot of photos of Sammy Miller's Electra and his doesn't have the white markers as you say. His also shows a 20 Amp ammeter which I can't seem to be able to find - still looking. You can see I have an ammeter on the shell but the face is completely gone.

I've wondered about the mileage too because of the condition inside the engine.

I did find pieces of grommets everyhwere. They were all dried out and crumbly. I've got the frame all apart now (I can understand why people thought it wasn't Norton's "finest hour') and been taking out the steel inserts before it goes off for powdercoating.

Keep the comments coming -they're very helpful.

Hi Peter & Ian

The Lightweight Centre stand can be improved by adding two spacer on the pivot bush as in photos.

This prevents the top of the stand leg folding inwards, producing a lop-sided look when parking.

Andy S

=======

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Hi Ian,

Both theNavigator and ElectraI've ownedhad the 1964-on wider Roadholders. Identified by a steering lock on the top yoke and lock stops welded to the front frame member adjacent to lower steering bearing. You have the earlier narrow forks with bolt-on lock stopand Patrick may be correct that tell/tales were discontinued with the wider forks.

The styling panels your bike lacks are held on by the 5/16 BSC outer threads on the long, cross frame,double threaded stud under the seat. Also by the thin nuts you found on the end of the swinging arm pivot stud.

Your centre stand has been repaired. Looks like the originalpedal broke off and was welded on again at a strange angle. Looks OK now, but it might foul a regular silencer. There's probably a picture of the lightweight centre stand, with foot pedal,on the NOC spares website. Pricey though. Navigators and Jubilees had a similar stand without the foot pedal. A 3/16 pin, about one inch long,was inserted just above the foot on the left leg. You'll see where if you look at the casting. You might decide to remove the welded pedal. Hope you read this before the new paint has dried.

Why does it always look so sunny in your photos? I'm beginning to think you must live in Australia.

Great photos

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Patrick,

The bike sat out in desert heat of southern California for at least 30 years. I'm sure the red has just faded away. It's amazing that it's actaully in as good a condition as it is considering.There might be remnants of it when I take it apart. The frame is all dissasembled now and I've posted new photos.

Ian

Hi Peter & Ian..

It seems 'add another attachment' does not work - here is another stand/spacer picture

Andy S

-----------

Previously andy_sochanik wrote:

Hi Peter & Ian

The Lightweight Centre stand can be improved by adding two spacer on the pivot bush as in photos.

This prevents the top of the stand leg folding inwards, producing a lop-sided look when parking.

Andy S

=======

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Hi Ian,

Both theNavigator and ElectraI've ownedhad the 1964-on wider Roadholders. Identified by a steering lock on the top yoke and lock stops welded to the front frame member adjacent to lower steering bearing. You have the earlier narrow forks with bolt-on lock stopand Patrick may be correct that tell/tales were discontinued with the wider forks.

The styling panels your bike lacks are held on by the 5/16 BSC outer threads on the long, cross frame,double threaded stud under the seat. Also by the thin nuts you found on the end of the swinging arm pivot stud.

Your centre stand has been repaired. Looks like the originalpedal broke off and was welded on again at a strange angle. Looks OK now, but it might foul a regular silencer. There's probably a picture of the lightweight centre stand, with foot pedal,on the NOC spares website. Pricey though. Navigators and Jubilees had a similar stand without the foot pedal. A 3/16 pin, about one inch long,was inserted just above the foot on the left leg. You'll see where if you look at the casting. You might decide to remove the welded pedal. Hope you read this before the new paint has dried.

Why does it always look so sunny in your photos? I'm beginning to think you must live in Australia.

Great photos

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Patrick,

The bike sat out in desert heat of southern California for at least 30 years. I'm sure the red has just faded away. It's amazing that it's actaully in as good a condition as it is considering.There might be remnants of it when I take it apart. The frame is all dissasembled now and I've posted new photos.

Ian

Hi Peter & Ian..

It seems 'add another attachment' does not work - here is another stand/spacer picture

Andy S

Hi Andy,

Interesting that you say that Norton ceased the telltales with the change to the 6 1/2" headlamps which were fitted to both Jubilee and Navigators probably at the same time in late 1960 (presumably as the 1961 model.

I have the two Navigators - a De Luxe with the frame nr. 964** registered on 12 May 1961 and a Standard with the frame nr.975** also seemingly delivered in May 1961. Presumably the De Luxe was made very early on in Navigator production. The De Luxe one has the 6 1/2" headlamp still with the original Wipac light unit and it has the two telltales in the shell. The Standard has the virtually identical 6 1/2" headlamp without the telltales. The only other difference that I can spot between the shells is that the one without telltales has two dimples in the shell to indicate the Off position for the Ignition and Light switches.

Of course I do not know the detailed early history of either of the bikes so it is perfectly possible that for any reason the original shell could have been changed because of say accident damage etc. When I got the De Luxe bike it had been stored in a garden shed and still had it's tax disc showing October 1970 so it was still relatively youthful when it went off the road because of a gearbox problem.

Ian's Electra looks a bit similar condition when he first got it - i.e mostly complete and original so it's interesting that his machine has the telltales as very few (if any) Jubilees and Navigators were sold in the USA.

Patrick

Thanks Andy for your picture of the cable clip - I have now re-attached a clip on my mudguard. There was just a little hole there where the original spot weld had broken but I have now re-attached it with a pop rivet.

Patrick

Ian,

I think 20 amps is a bit over the top.

Thegreatest deflectionyou are likey to see will be while discharging the battery with engine off.

The horn is not wired through the ammeter.

Worst case:-

Headlight 35 Watts - about 3 amps

Coils - 3 Amps

Tail light and brake light on together - 25 Watts - about 2 amps

Winkers - 18 watts - 1.5 amps.

Grand total - 9.5 amps or about 114 Watts.

Your alternator is about 120watts - maximum.

I cannot forsee any needle swing greater than 10 amps. Mostly my needle on my Electra, with it's original relay controlled voltage regulator, sits in the range -1 to +3 amps when riding. With an instrument reading -20 to +20 amps, and vibrating to boot, you would be lucky to see the needle move from zero.

I recommend you seek a smaller range than 20 amps. 8, 10, or 12 amps?

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Thaks for the comments Peter. I see what you mean about the headlight tell tales. The shell seems to be the right size and shape. Wonder what it came from? I've got a lot of photos of Sammy Miller's Electra and his doesn't have the white markers as you say. His also shows a 20 Amp ammeter which I can't seem to be able to find - still looking. You can see I have an ammeter on the shell but the face is completely gone.

I've wondered about the mileage too because of the condition inside the engine.

I did find pieces of grommets everyhwere. They were all dried out and crumbly. I've got the frame all apart now (I can understand why people thought it wasn't Norton's "finest hour') and been taking out the steel inserts before it goes off for powdercoating.

Keep the comments coming -they're very helpful.

Hi Ian,

That's looking good.

I didn't know you could do home powder coating so I must have a look at the Eastwood catalogue. Do you get good results with it? Are there any health hazards with powder coating - 2k paint does a good job but it needs a lot of quality equipment to apply. Did you do your own shot blasting preparation as well? Last time I tried this I found that my 3hp single phase compressor wasn't powerful enough to do a proper job. That was used on MGB suspension so maybe I was expecting too much and the dried sand used was costly.

Patrick

Patrick, here you go! Electrostatic Magic

dan

Thanks Dan. That is interesting. Years ago when I lived in Yorkshire I got several frames powder coated by a firm in Pontefract and I must say that the finish has lasted impressively well. So I rate powder coating highly. I didn't realise that it was possible to get a kit for home use but I would still need to acquire quite a bit of extra equipment.

On the otherhand I have several good sprayguns and the use of decent facilities for 2K painting so spray painting is the cheap option. Decisions! I think powder coating is more common in the USA.

Patrick

My scrambles bikes are all powder coated, as is the jubilee, it lasts well andcan be touched up with hammerite ! I think it was about 120 quid per frame incl blasting and covering the swing arm. The only thing to watch is that you are not coating over a crack. I've no idea how good those diy units are, but as you say decent blasting is needed first.

Will be working on the jubilee tomorrow, hopefully will make some progress, I got side tracked by the ES2! but can't go any further with that until I get the head and mag back.

Dan

Hi Ian,

The larger hole in the frame upright has a special washer tokeep the bolt central to the hole. The Norton part has an overalldiameter just larger than the hole in the frame upright. On one side it has been reduced in diameter to fit and locate inthe frame hole. Hole in the centre suits the bolt. Just like two thin quarter inch washers side by side and different O.D. The larger diameter goes on the bolt head side of the frame.

My 1964 Electra had its original (rusty) paintwork and I'm sure it left the Plumstead factory with 'roadholder' transfers. The transfers were still visible. I think this was a cost cutting exerciseby AMC.

Keep up the good work.

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Fitting the rear battery holder on to the main frame post but I see that the top hole is quite big - should there be a grommet in there? The photos show how it came off the bike and you can see the two holes on the main frame piece too.

Also how to you flatten the rivets that hold the roadholder badges on -those things are hard material and hard to reach the back of on two of them? I know I have to add them before mounting the brackets.

I've also added a few more photos to the build page showing the powdercoating done on the headlight brackets.

Ian: I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the Roadholder "rivets" are not typical rivets at all but rather what I would call drive pins or I guess that they could be called drive rivets. The shank of the drive rivets have a high angle twist to them. They are meant to be hammered into a hole slightly smaller than the base diameter of the shank on the rivet. Hopefully the hole in the steering head has not been enlarged.

Mike

Hi Ian,

Your steering stop is the same as the Navigator and it looks OK to me - it simply bolts on.

Patrick