Best electronic kits

Tom, first thing to do is to ditch that engine and put a real one in there. My poor man's Manx started as a T*it*n but no more and no regrets. Street cred is all.

Anyway, same bike (ES2 motor) runs an alterator, Boyer electronic ignition and a Boyer powerbox. To be honest I would always have a battery, BUT when the battery fails or the fuse blows the powerbox will always get you home, even in the dark as long as your charging system is sound. Had this set up for years and no issues.

I agree, my Boyer system is quite old and works fine. I had to replace the coils after some years. I have also fitted a high output alternator and power box which seem good. Also Boyer are very helpful with enquiries

My machine is equipped with a reg/rec and an early electronic ignition unit which still employs a mechanical advance/retard unit.

In order to improve slow speed running I'm considering replacing this ignition unit with a more modern unit, but am also thinking the Boyer powerbox looks fun as I may be able to junk the battery!

Does anyone have any recommendations, experiences or warnings to share?

My bike is actually a Triton, running a 650 Triumph pre-unit twin, with an alternator and obviously kick start.

Hello the best electronic self generating with lighting coils no need of a battery , is for Electric-world.com this fits in place of your alternator . it comes in a complete kit for just over £230 a bargain , you do not need a battery to run this system is completely self generating so check it out. yours anna j .

Previously tom chillingworth wrote:

My machine is equipped with a reg/rec and an early electronic ignition unit which still employs a mechanical advance/retard unit.

In order to improve slow speed running I'm considering replacing this ignition unit with a more modern unit, but am also thinking the Boyer powerbox looks fun as I may be able to junk the battery!

Does anyone have any recommendations, experiences or warnings to share?

My bike is actually a Triton, running a 650 Triumph pre-unit twin, with an alternator and obviously kick start.

Hello the best electronic self generating with lighting coils no need of a battery , is for Electrex-world.LTD.co.uk And the parts number is STK-022-D. This fits in place of your alternator . it comes in a complete kit for just over £230 a bargain , you do not need a battery to run this system is completely self generating so check it out.

They do a racing one to fit Dominator Or Commando So you need to Check out Electrex-world.LTD.co.uk

yours anna j .

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously tom chillingworth wrote:

My machine is equipped with a reg/rec and an early electronic ignition unit which still employs a mechanical advance/retard unit.

In order to improve slow speed running I'm considering replacing this ignition unit with a more modern unit, but am also thinking the Boyer powerbox looks fun as I may be able to junk the battery!

Does anyone have any recommendations, experiences or warnings to share?

My bike is actually a Triton, running a 650 Triumph pre-unit twin, with an alternator and obviously kick start.

Hello the best electronic self generating with lighting coils no need of a battery , is for Electrex-world.LTD.co.uk And the parts number is STK-022-D. This fits in place of your alternator . it comes in a complete kit for just over £230 a bargain , you do not need a battery to run this system is completely self generating so check it out.

They do a racing one to fit Dominator Or Commando So you need to Check out Electrex-world.LTD.co.uk

yours anna j .

Hi Anna

That's interesting the Electrex-world unit. Does it require a swop to 12V and how is it fitted in my Coil ignition 6v dommie 600 1960?

Thanks

Jim

Previously james_wilson wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously tom chillingworth wrote:

My machine is equipped with a reg/rec and an early electronic ignition unit which still employs a mechanical advance/retard unit.

In order to improve slow speed running I'm considering replacing this ignition unit with a more modern unit, but am also thinking the Boyer powerbox looks fun as I may be able to junk the battery!

Does anyone have any recommendations, experiences or warnings to share?

My bike is actually a Triton, running a 650 Triumph pre-unit twin, with an alternator and obviously kick start.

Hello the best electronic self generating with lighting coils no need of a battery , is for Electrex-world.LTD.co.uk And the parts number is STK-022-D. This fits in place of your alternator . it comes in a complete kit for just over £230 a bargain , you do not need a battery to run this system is completely self generating so check it out.

They do a racing one to fit Dominator Or Commando So you need to Check out Electrex-world.LTD.co.uk

yours anna j .

Hi Anna

That's interesting the Electrex-world unit. Does it require a swop to 12V and how is it fitted in my Coil ignition 6v dommie 600 1960?

Thanks

Jim

Well You do not need you old Coils or a Battery . The Kit comes with Coils and a power box and every thing you will need for is too work there are NO points needed ether and No distributer or anything else needed . It all works off the Alternator side . this kit replaces your alternator .it as the timing in there to is electronic self generating So there is NO need For Any Battery But if you feel you need on you could dump the lighting coil side to the battery just take a look for you self and see How good this system real is. I would buy it my self If my Magneto went on the blink. Yours Anna J

mmm - very interesting - thanks for the info about the Electrex kit Anna, that looks highly suitable, except they don't seem to supply one for the Triumph 6T - maybe I'll have to source myself a Dommi engine after all?!

there both fire at 360%

Tom,

From studying the advert it seems that if you remove the alternator and fit the electrex unit you have nothing to provide power to run the lights, horn etc. so it's only good for racing. They say that:

• We are currently developing a new system that will provide self generating ignition and lighting.

but seemingly not available as yet. When they do, they will have reinvented the mag-dyno - there's progress for you!

I think Nortons fire 121212 whereas with Triumphs it's 212121 (-;

The product info also clearly states :

Ignition only high performance system engines requiring twin spark plugs and twin cylinder engines firing both cylinders simultaneously.

so not sure where Anna got the idea it has lighting coils etc uless we're looking at a different system, Anna states the price at just over £230, what I'm seeing is £270. The part number matches, though

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-022D.html#aSTK_2d022D

Regards, Tim

Previously tim_gostling wrote:

The product info also clearly states :

Ignition only high performance system engines requiring twin spark plugs and twin cylinder engines firing both cylinders simultaneously.

so not sure where Anna got the idea it has lighting coils etc uless we're looking at a different system, Anna states the price at just over £230, what I'm seeing is £270. The part number matches, though

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-022D.html#aSTK_2d022D

Regards, Tim

Tim/anyone else,

the picture I saw on the website shows what appears to be a chargingstator ring,presumably this is wired to the battery to give a charge.I too am on the horns of the failing magneto dilemma,what type of electric ignition system to buy as the Hopwood/Lucas exercise regime(ride out,push home)is doing me in.Does anyone have experience of the Thorspark system?Is it any good,useless etc?

John Boyce

The 'firing both cylinders simultaneously' is of no significance, a single HT coil has either end of its winding going to a separate plug, instead of having one end earthed and a connection to a single plug. With this arrangement one plug then sparks harmlessly nearthe end of its exhaust stroke (the 'lost-spark') needing only about 1/20th the voltage at low pressure (about 1 Bar), the other ignites the compressed mixture. Works fine in any 360? twin and some jap manufacturers used to have it as standard. First time I saw it was on a 5TA in Tanzania in 1977 which was mysteriously working fine with no distributor cap. Took me a while to figure that out.

No doubt a sale enquiry would definitively resolve whether it can provide 12V power too. Might persuade me to take the drive chain off my distributor forever.

I think the Boyer on my B50 BSA single has a lost spark on the exhaust stroke too, for reasons which are unclear.

Steve

Previously tim_gostling wrote:

The product info also clearly states :

Ignition only high performance system engines requiring twin spark plugs and twin cylinder engines firing both cylinders simultaneously.

so not sure where Anna got the idea it has lighting coils etc uless we're looking at a different system, Anna states the price at just over £230, what I'm seeing is £270. The part number matches, though

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-022D.html#aSTK_2d022D

Regards, Tim

Tim/anyone else,

the picture I saw on the website shows what appears to be a chargingstator ring,presumably this is wired to the battery to give a charge.I too am on the horns of the failing magneto dilemma,what type of electric ignition system to buy as the Hopwood/Lucas exercise regime(ride out,push home)is doing me in.Does anyone have experience of the Thorspark system?Is it any good,useless etc?

John Boyce

Hello yes there no different to boyer or Pazon electronic ignition systems they all need a good battery to power them , with the STK-022D 0rSTK-2d022D You DO NOT NEED A BATTERY to power this electronic system its Self generating this is better than any other ignition system you can think of or buy to day, not even cars have a electronic ignition as good as this one, so you need to check it out, and this will work on the Commando's as Well as the Dominator models,

Previously john_boyce wrote:

Previously tim_gostling wrote:

The product info also clearly states :

Ignition only high performance system engines requiring twin spark plugs and twin cylinder engines firing both cylinders simultaneously.

so not sure where Anna got the idea it has lighting coils etc uless we're looking at a different system, Anna states the price at just over £230, what I'm seeing is £270. The part number matches, though

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-022D.html#aSTK_2d022D

Regards, Tim

Tim/anyone else,

the picture I saw on the website shows what appears to be a charging stator ring,presumably this is wired to the battery to give a charge.I too am on the horns of the failing magneto dilemma,what type of electric ignition system to buy as the Hopwood/Lucas exercise regime(ride out,push home)is doing me in.Does anyone have experience of the Thorspark system?Is it any good,useless etc?

John Boyce

Hello a UPDATE the all New STK-102D lighting and ignition kit, all you ever need to have good powerful lights and a good powerful self generating electronic ignition kit all for £230 and will fit commando and Dominator alternator models, you not get a electronic ignition kit any were as good for the money, and its all self generating system ,

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously john_boyce wrote:

Previously tim_gostling wrote:

The product info also clearly states :

Ignition only high performance system engines requiring twin spark plugs and twin cylinder engines firing both cylinders simultaneously.

so not sure where Anna got the idea it has lighting coils etc uless we're looking at a different system, Anna states the price at just over £230, what I'm seeing is £270. The part number matches, though

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-022D.html#aSTK_2d022D

Regards, Tim

Tim/anyone else,

the picture I saw on the website shows what appears to be a charging stator ring,presumably this is wired to the battery to give a charge.I too am on the horns of the failing magneto dilemma,what type of electric ignition system to buy as the Hopwood/Lucas exercise regime(ride out,push home)is doing me in.Does anyone have experience of the Thorspark system?Is it any good,useless etc?

John Boyce Hello a UPDATE the all New STK-102D lighting and ignition kit, all you ever need to have good powerful lights and a good powerful self generating electronic ignition kit all for £230 and will fit commando and Dominator alternator models, you not get a electronic ignition kit any were as good for the money, and its all self generating system ,

Anna,

it would appear you can wire this new type to your battery so as to give lighting when not running so I shall have to have a bit of a think,I have no problem with my altenator/battery etc(the alt came off a honda cb200 many years ago and with a bit of bidginng to fit has always been a1).Decisions,decisions....

just checked out the STK-102D and it's £282 inc VAT presumably plus postage,I'm getting black looks from the missis

John

Previously john_boyce wrote:

Previously john_boyce wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously john_boyce wrote:

Previously tim_gostling wrote:

The product info also clearly states :

Ignition only high performance system engines requiring twin spark plugs and twin cylinder engines firing both cylinders simultaneously.

so not sure where Anna got the idea it has lighting coils etc uless we're looking at a different system, Anna states the price at just over £230, what I'm seeing is £270. The part number matches, though

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-022D.html#aSTK_2d022D

Regards, Tim

Tim/anyone else,

the picture I saw on the website shows what appears to be a charging stator ring,presumably this is wired to the battery to give a charge.I too am on the horns of the failing magneto dilemma,what type of electric ignition system to buy as the Hopwood/Lucas exercise regime(ride out,push home)is doing me in.Does anyone have experience of the Thorspark system?Is it any good,useless etc?

John Boyce Hello a UPDATE the all New STK-102D lighting and ignition kit, all you ever need to have good powerful lights and a good powerful self generating electronic ignition kit all for £230 and will fit commando and Dominator alternator models, you not get a electronic ignition kit any were as good for the money, and its all self generating system ,

Anna,

it would appear you can wire this new type to your battery so as to give lighting when not running so I shall have to have a bit of a think,I have no problem with my altenator/battery etc(the alt came off a honda cb200 many years ago and with a bit of bidginng to fit has always been a1).Decisions,decisions....

just checked out the STK-102D and it's £282 inc VAT presumably plus postage,I'm getting black looks from the missis

John

hello well at lest you looking to give it a go, and yes this system can be wired up to charge your battery up if needed, I think its one of the best Electronic ignition systems on the Market , And if my Magneto gave up the ghost , I would by one , there a better answer then Boyer OR Pazon Electronic ignition system that Needs a Battery to power it, The Electrexworld STK-102D dose Not Need a Battery to power it as its self generating , That cannot be a bad thing. and a lot cheaper than a Lucas K2FC . yours Anna J

I understand this is not the direction you are going, but I think it is worth mentioning, A correctly rebuilt magneto with a rewound coil & modern (Brightspark) condenser mounted under the points, would with very minimal maintenance outlast the electronic units & do not require a battery at all. Look how long your original mag lasted before it needed repairs.

I understand this is not the direction you are going, but I think it is worth mentioning, A correctly rebuilt magneto with a rewound coil & modern (Brightspark) condenser mounted under the points, would with very minimal maintenance outlast the electronic units & do not require a battery at all. Look how long your original mag lasted before it needed repairs.

Eleclrexworld STK-102D dose not need a battery, and will out last any magneto, as there is only one moving part , and electronic solid state components. and its gives you lights as well as charging your battery and ignition , dose you Lucas K2F or Lucas K2FC give you all this, ! The Answers Is NO, and it cheaper than a restored Lucas Magneto

That is a nice unit for sure, but history tells us the electronics don't last near as long as the traditional magneto & dynamo & definitely WILL NOT "outlast any magneto". The Achilles heel of most of these units is the non-moving part: the circuit board. I understand the attraction to the simplicity of the electronic versions, but look at what we have seen thus far with all of these electronics, maybe 10 years at best . I am sure they will make improvements & I am all for that, but I can rebuild a Lucas mag for a lot less money than any electronic gadget & thats a fact. Keep in mind, most of the magnetos that come into my shop have been going strong for 50-60 years, no electronic unit can even come close to that lifespan. Same story with a Lucas Dynamo, if done up properly & the occasional bit of lube, they will far outlast the electronic & that is also a fact as history shows us. On the other hand I think the new electronic regulators are awesome & work much better than the old Lucas regulators.

I am sure over time these units will improve & get better, & on a coil ignition & prefer the electronic ignitions, but to replace a magneto with the electronic ignition makes no sense to me whatsoever. I have notices a lot of aircraft with magnetos & they dont convert to electronic, and much of the drag racing (sprint racing ?) world prefers the magneto, so they cant be all that bad.

But, most of us live in a free world & can do as we please, it is nice that we have so many options, much more than we did in the past. At the end of the day, as long as the bikes are being ridden, the rest really doesent matter too much does it

if you like aircraft magnetos then check out j s motorsports [usa] joe hunt magneto for heavy twins. its pricey at $695 but the vendor [jim schmidt]highly recommends it. have a look at their interesting site for norton twins anyway.

That is a nice unit for sure, but history tells us the electronics don't last near as long as the traditional magneto & dynamo & definitely WILL NOT "outlast any magneto". The Achilles heel of most of these units is the non-moving part: the circuit board. I understand the attraction to the simplicity of the electronic versions, but look at what we have seen thus far with all of these electronics, maybe 10 years at best . I am sure they will make improvements & I am all for that, but I can rebuild a Lucas mag for a lot less money than any electronic gadget & thats a fact. Keep in mind, most of the magnetos that come into my shop have been going strong for 50-60 years, no electronic unit can even come close to that lifespan. Same story with a Lucas Dynamo, if done up properly & the occasional bit of lube, they will far outlast the electronic & that is also a fact as history shows us. On the other hand I think the new electronic regulators are awesome & work much better than the old Lucas regulators.

I am sure over time these units will improve & get better, & on a coil ignition & prefer the electronic ignitions, but to replace a magneto with the electronic ignition makes no sense to me whatsoever. I have notices a lot of aircraft with magnetos & they dont convert to electronic, and much of the drag racing (sprint racing ?) world prefers the magneto, so they cant be all that bad.

But, most of us live in a free world & can do as we please, it is nice that we have so many options, much more than we did in the past. At the end of the day, as long as the bikes are being ridden, the rest really doesent matter too much does it

so what is a brightspark electronic component but a silicon condenser and they fail in time just like any thing else So there no better than Electrexworld.co.uk electronic ignition system made in Japan ,

That is a nice unit for sure, but history tells us the electronics don't last near as long as the traditional magneto & dynamo & definitely WILL NOT "outlast any magneto". The Achilles heel of most of these units is the non-moving part: the circuit board. I understand the attraction to the simplicity of the electronic versions, but look at what we have seen thus far with all of these electronics, maybe 10 years at best . I am sure they will make improvements & I am all for that, but I can rebuild a Lucas mag for a lot less money than any electronic gadget & thats a fact. Keep in mind, most of the magnetos that come into my shop have been going strong for 50-60 years, no electronic unit can even come close to that lifespan. Same story with a Lucas Dynamo, if done up properly & the occasional bit of lube, they will far outlast the electronic & that is also a fact as history shows us. On the other hand I think the new electronic regulators are awesome & work much better than the old Lucas regulators.

I am sure over time these units will improve & get better, & on a coil ignition & prefer the electronic ignitions, but to replace a magneto with the electronic ignition makes no sense to me whatsoever. I have notices a lot of aircraft with magnetos & they dont convert to electronic, and much of the drag racing (sprint racing ?) world prefers the magneto, so they cant be all that bad.

But, most of us live in a free world & can do as we please, it is nice that we have so many options, much more than we did in the past. At the end of the day, as long as the bikes are being ridden, the rest really doesent matter too much does it

what do think this a modern version of the magneto , but this is a fly wheel magneto with no points they have magnetic contacts and lighting coils, so its a magneto and lighting coils all in one fly wheel magneto , that fits in place of your alternator So its compact as well and reliable so there no need for anything else .just blanc every thing else off it comes with a handle bar kill button and a complete kit of every thing you ever need for your light as well as ignition what a better way to go, its all fits in the primary chain case, so just try and check it out first, its all on there web page you can ask Questions via email or phone so its up too you , yours anna j

No, that is incorrect. The Brightspark replacement capacitor is NOT a silicon condenser.

Everything will fail in time.

One condenser is very different than an entire circuit board of components.

I am not saying you are suggesting a bad product, it seems very nice for someone. But it is not more durable, cheaper, or longer lasting.

All I am saying is if we look at how long electronic ignition systems last (take you pick of devices) versus how long magnetos last, the mag outlasts the electronics by 4-5 times as long. Yes the mag has a set of points & a condenser, but with the correct components set up properly a mag will historicly outlast the electronic offerings. When a mag reaches the end of its life , it tends to go bad slowly over time. You typically can ride home, conversly when electronics go bad (and they do) you are dead in the water, with no chance of fixing it to get you home.

I have 3 Nortons, all with magnetos, whats your ignition??????????

Skip Brolund

I also prefer the looks of a vintage magneto, but thats just me.

If cost is a concern, a rebuilt mag is cheaper thant the device you mentioned.

Again, it's nice to have options, either one will work fine, I just prefer a mag for the reasons mentioned above.

No, that is incorrect. The Brightspark replacement capacitor is NOT a silicon condenser.

Everything will fail in time.

One condenser is very different than an entire circuit board of components.

I am not saying you are suggesting a bad product, it seems very nice for someone. But it is not more durable, cheaper, or longer lasting.

All I am saying is if we look at how long electronic ignition systems last (take you pick of devices) versus how long magnetos last, the mag outlasts the electronics by 4-5 times as long. Yes the mag has a set of points & a condenser, but with the correct components set up properly a mag will historicly outlast the electronic offerings. When a mag reaches the end of its life , it tends to go bad slowly over time. You typically can ride home, conversly when electronics go bad (and they do) you are dead in the water, with no chance of fixing it to get you home.

I have 3 Nortons, all with magnetos, whats your ignition??????????

Skip Brolund

I also prefer the looks of a vintage magneto, but thats just me.

If cost is a concern, a rebuilt mag is cheaper thant the device you mentioned.

Again, it's nice to have options, either one will work fine, I just prefer a mag for the reasons mentioned above.

well I have a magneto And yes I do agree with you in one way, but Technology as moved on , And Electrexworld.co.uk have moved with it, and This type of Ignition system is fitted to world superbikes and Moto GP bikes And MotoCross Bikes a Trail bikes around the world, So if any one cannot see the advantages then there sticking there heads in the sand, Yours Anna J

Nice product, for what it is. I like the no battery feature (like a mag), one day it may be as long lasting & reliable as a mag. All the top fuel racing cars & bikes around the world use mags. A Lucas mag is a simple & reliable machine really, once the condenser (capacitor) is upgraded.

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Hello a UPDATE the all New STK-102D lighting and ignition kit, all you ever need to have good powerful lights and a good powerful self generating electronic ignition kit all for £230 and will fit commando and Dominator alternator models, you not get a electronic ignition kit any were as good for the money, and its all self generating system ,

The biggest problem I can see with this system is the alternator delivering a maximum of 50 watts, which will be reduced if you convert to DC & use it for battery charging. As most 12 volt headlight bulbs are rated at 55 watts, add in a tail light at 5 watts, then hit the brakes & add another 21 watts, you'll be left in the dark.

Regards, Tim

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Hello a UPDATE the all New STK-102D lighting and ignition kit, all you ever need to have good powerful lights and a good powerful self generating electronic ignition kit all for £230 and will fit commando and Dominator alternator models, you not get a electronic ignition kit any were as good for the money, and its all self generating system ,

The biggest problem I can see with this system is the alternator delivering a maximum of 50 watts, which will be reduced if you convert to DC & use it for battery charging. As most 12 volt headlight bulbs are rated at 55 watts, add in a tail light at 5 watts, then hit the brakes & add another 21 watts, you'll be left in the dark.

Regards, Tim

Hello Tim your right about this . I wounder if they do a big out put, coils for the lighting side as they need them . 50watts is a bit on the low side,

Well this is all very interesting but this system only supplies sparks. at the moment and does not have any charge coils for lights.

The problem with original magnetos is the quality of replacment parts and the people to fix them are getting old like the mags themselves.

Also one of the biggest problems are the magnets which are at least are getting on for 50 years. Yes, I know you can remagnatise but they will still go off very quickly.

It amuses me folkes shouting how unreliable modern electronics are but does there flat screen telly go wrong all the time. Do they convert there new Datsun/ Ford to points just incase they break down on the road??, I think not.

Magnetos are great when new and yes they lasted a long time but things have moved on now.

The Boyer is fine like the Pazon which I think is better as it will work on lower voltage.

There is another self generating system and thats the BT-H one (http://bt-h.biz/). The new units even look like the original magnetos. Yes they are expensive but thats life.

Regards Tony

Sorry Tony, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points, the system does have charging/lighting coils, but they only produce a maximum of 50 watts, not enough for headlight & tail light ! Ok if you wany daylight only, I suppose, at least you shouldn't loose your sparks Take a better look, click on the fitting instructions for more detail. http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eelectrexworld%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fSTK%2d022D%2ehtml&WD=102d%20stk&PN=STK%2d102D_%2d_Ignition_Alternator_Kit%2ehtml%23aSTK_2d102D#aSTK_2d102D.

Also, the Mk4 boyer will work at low voltage, just as the Pazon will, it's much better than the old Mk3.

Regards, Tim

PS, Bloody flat screen TV's do go wrong far more often than an old cathode ray tube, at least they seem to in my house !

Only just picked up on this thread. John Boyce asked about the Thorspark system. I have had this on my '54 Dominator 88 for over a year. Apart from needing a battery, it has worked perfectly, and is easy to fit. The original magneto stays in place, and it takes a close inspection to see it no longer fires the plugs. As some will know, I live in Spain and did not want the bike off the road for weeks, while the mag was rebuilt. Had I been in the UK (with long, cold, wet, winters!) I would have probably have sent the mag to Brightspark for overhaul. John.

Hi Tony,

all very good points!!! I would like to address some of them:

1) "The problem with original magnetos is the quality of "replacment parts and the people to fix them are getting old like the mags themselves."

This has been true for many years, but Brightspark have solved the capacitor problems, and I now buy all my slip rings and pickups from one of 2 companies that make them in the UK & they are so much better than the oriental & Indian copies. There is also a whole cottage industry of guys in their sheds making excellent nuts-bolts-washers-safety screws-etc. in the UK & the quality is far better than Lucas ever dreamed of (thanks to the affordable CNCmachines available now). At lest 2 of our club members rewind armatures with better product & more accuracy than ever available in the past (Paul Wolf is one, I forgot the other). I know of three rebuilders of Magnetos in the UK that are not run by retirees, and one company has a young son learning the trade, so all is not lost yet!! I can also think of 3 guys in the USA and one in Canada that are not old timers yet, that do magneto rebuilding. Here is a good link on lost magnetism on magnetos:

http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/faqs/FAQs%20about%20magnetism%20and%20remagnetising/What%20causes%20a%20magnetos%20magnet%20to%20lose%20its%20strength.htm

2) "Also one of the biggest problems are the magnets which are at least are getting on for 50 years. Yes, I know you can remagnatise but they will still go off very quickly"

I own an original Bosch magneto charger & can assure you that a magneto magnet can be recharged as new if the correct equipment& process is used. These magnets will lose strength over time due to heat,vibration,etc. But can be recharged back to original spec. with no trouble at all & I haven'tfound one yet that "will go off very quickly", if the do, something is very wrong, as the magnetic field doesn't care how old the magnet is. Unfortunately this is an area often overlooked by the home magneto mechanic.

3) "It amuses me folkes shouting how unreliable modern electronics are but does there flat screen telly go wrong all the time. Do they convert there new Datsun/ Ford to points just incase they break down on the road??, I think not."

I understand your thinking on this, but I would disagree. I dont think modern electronics are all unreliable, in fact, I would not even consider rebuilding a mag without a modern ceramic condenser from Brightspark in place of those antique capacitors some of the old timers are using. What I am saying is, given a newly rebuilt mag & compare it to a newly installed electronic ignition, either one can fail. The modern electronic ignition is maintenance free, where the mag will need a drop of oil on the oil wick on occasion,change the point in a few thousand miles (if necessary) & check the bearing grease after many thousands of miles. The magneto was replaced by the coil ignition because of price, not due to a fault of a magneto, and magnetos are used on many things today, even in this wonderful age of electronics. And as stated in an earlier post, when electronics go, they tend to go down with little , or no notice, where the tendency of a magneto is if it is starting to fail, it tends do so over long period of time. Failure of a mag is usually due to lack of maintenance.

Mallory makes an awesome magneto for you Ford, if you are looing for a superior ignition to the electronic black box you have now

As to TV sets, well............. ask any electronics repair shop which TV sets lasted longer , the old type or the new ones & you will be quite suprized!!!! To be fair, we can make a TV that will last for 20 years, but now days everybody wants cheap,cheap, cheap. As a kid growing up we only bought 2-3 TV's my whole childhood( the first one had vacuum tubes) , try that today.

I find that overall, for the money, a magneto is more reliable, less costly, and repairable. Those thongs are the most important to me. We all have different needs & opinions, so its nice that we have so many options to choose from.

As the electronic "magnetos" go, I do really like the BTH one.

Skip Brolund

This thread started with a simple question from Tom but has led down a diversity of routes, few of which help Tom very much I think. Because of the single-minded input of one respondent I was reluctant to join in, but Skip has taken it seriously and given some technically interesting thoughts.

My advice to Tom (other than remove the Triumph engine, only joking Tom! Tritons are accepted!) is perhaps to fit a new Boyer or Pazon. You already have an alternator and if the charging from that needs updating then there are modern alternator voltage regulators (A Reg One or Wylec or Al Oz).

The advice to fit an Electrex STK-022D ((£270 + p&p) is eccentric in the extreme as this kit REPLACES the alternator stator leaving you with no effective lights. Tell me if I am wrong somebody, but it looks as if the timing pulse comes off the new stator. Thus, it helpfully does away with a timing case pick-up, and potentially the battery. However, it seems a good item for a competition type machine.

This thread also mentions magnetos. Why I don't know because this has no relevance to Tom, nor to the Electrex unit. But, to continue Skip's point, I heartily agree that a properly reconditioned magneto is the best solution for a pre-alternator motorcycle. However, if you want more electricity (watts) for modern riding, for example daytime headlamps and indicators, then the decision might change.

A dynamo can be reconditioned, fitted with a modern control unit, connected to a decent battery, and potentially emit enough (80-100w) to run coil ignition and the lights. A faulty magneto is then best converted with the Thorspark kit (£150 + p&p) to fire the plug through a low tension sensor and HT coil. This retains the existing magneto advance/retard but does not use the magneto to generate or direct the spark.

My solution for a 1951 ES2, which I want for everyday running with full lights and indicators, will be to fit an Alton Generator (dynamo replacing alternator with 90-150w at £420) and the magneto (currently dead) will be re-engineered inside and fitted with a spare Boyer pick-up, or I will fit the Thorspark.

Norm.

This thread started with a simple question from Tom but has led down a diversity of routes, few of which help Tom very much I think. Because of the single-minded input of one respondent I was reluctant to join in, but Skip has taken it seriously and given some technically interesting thoughts.

My advice to Tom (other than remove the Triumph engine, only joking Tom! Tritons are accepted!) is perhaps to fit a new Boyer or Pazon. You already have an alternator and if the charging from that needs updating then there are modern alternator voltage regulators (A Reg One or Wylec or Al Oz).

The advice to fit an Electrex STK-022D ((£270 + p&p) is eccentric in the extreme as this kit REPLACES the alternator stator leaving you with no effective lights. Tell me if I am wrong somebody, but it looks as if the timing pulse comes off the new stator. Thus, it helpfully does away with a timing case pick-up, and potentially the battery. However, it seems a good item for a competition type machine.

This thread also mentions magnetos. Why I don't know because this has no relevance to Tom, nor to the Electrex unit. But, to continue Skip's point, I heartily agree that a properly reconditioned magneto is the best solution for a pre-alternator motorcycle. However, if you want more electricity (watts) for modern riding, for example daytime headlamps and indicators, then the decision might change.

A dynamo can be reconditioned, fitted with a modern control unit, connected to a decent battery, and potentially emit enough (80-100w) to run coil ignition and the lights. A faulty magneto is then best converted with the Thorspark kit (£150 + p&p) to fire the plug through a low tension sensor and HT coil. This retains the existing magneto advance/retard but does not use the magneto to generate or direct the spark.

My solution for a 1951 ES2, which I want for everyday running with full lights and indicators, will be to fit an Alton Generator (dynamo replacing alternator with 90-150w at £420) and the magneto (currently dead) will be re-engineered inside and fitted with a spare Boyer pick-up, or I will fit the Thorspark.

Norm.

Well I love the old Magneto as well as the next guy , I rebuild my own and test them to And the One on my Bike as Been rebuilt by me in 2009 And as not missed a beat, and Start real easy with Bosch W7DTC there the same as N5/N6y or in between to two , But with Electrexworld there going in the right direction you do not need a battery to start your bike, as for the 50watt lighting out put this can be link up to your battery and it then give a charge to the battery at better than having to relie on just a battery and alternator as you only need one or the other too fail then your stuck and ringing the AA

Previously tim_gostling wrote:

Sorry Tony, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points, the system does have charging/lighting coils, but they only produce a maximum of 50 watts, not enough for headlight & tail light ! Ok if you wany daylight only, I suppose, at least you shouldn't loose your sparks Take a better look, click on the fitting instructions for more detail. http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eelectrexworld%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fSTK%2d022D%2ehtml&WD=102d%20stk&PN=STK%2d102D_%2d_Ignition_Alternator_Kit%2ehtml%23aSTK_2d102D#aSTK_2d102D.

Also, the Mk4 boyer will work at low voltage, just as the Pazon will, it's much better than the old Mk3.

Regards, Tim

PS, Bloody flat screen TV's do go wrong far more often than an old cathode ray tube, at least they seem to in my house !

Sorry Tim your right. I must have had the wrong glasses on. However 50w is like a fag end in the dark and as we all know if the world still used 6volt lights theres no problem but with modern stuff it just casts a big shadow in front of you.

If the bike as an alternator theres no problem with points or Boyer / Pazon. If the battery does die an independant ignition unit is very handy and if it looks like an original mag like the new BT-H all the better.

Cheers Tony

Hi Tony,

all very good points!!! I would like to address some of them:

1) "The problem with original magnetos is the quality of "replacment parts and the people to fix them are getting old like the mags themselves."

This has been true for many years, but Brightspark have solved the capacitor problems, and I now buy all my slip rings and pickups from one of 2 companies that make them in the UK & they are so much better than the oriental & Indian copies. There is also a whole cottage industry of guys in their sheds making excellent nuts-bolts-washers-safety screws-etc. in the UK & the quality is far better than Lucas ever dreamed of (thanks to the affordable CNCmachines available now). At lest 2 of our club members rewind armatures with better product & more accuracy than ever available in the past (Paul Wolf is one, I forgot the other). I know of three rebuilders of Magnetos in the UK that are not run by retirees, and one company has a young son learning the trade, so all is not lost yet!! I can also think of 3 guys in the USA and one in Canada that are not old timers yet, that do magneto rebuilding. Here is a good link on lost magnetism on magnetos:

http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/faqs/FAQs%20about%20magnetism%20and%20remagnetising/What%20causes%20a%20magnetos%20magnet%20to%20lose%20its%20strength.htm

2) "Also one of the biggest problems are the magnets which are at least are getting on for 50 years. Yes, I know you can remagnatise but they will still go off very quickly"

I own an original Bosch magneto charger & can assure you that a magneto magnet can be recharged as new if the correct equipment& process is used. These magnets will lose strength over time due to heat,vibration,etc. But can be recharged back to original spec. with no trouble at all & I haven'tfound one yet that "will go off very quickly", if the do, something is very wrong, as the magnetic field doesn't care how old the magnet is. Unfortunately this is an area often overlooked by the home magneto mechanic.

3) "It amuses me folkes shouting how unreliable modern electronics are but does there flat screen telly go wrong all the time. Do they convert there new Datsun/ Ford to points just incase they break down on the road??, I think not."

I understand your thinking on this, but I would disagree. I dont think modern electronics are all unreliable, in fact, I would not even consider rebuilding a mag without a modern ceramic condenser from Brightspark in place of those antique capacitors some of the old timers are using. What I am saying is, given a newly rebuilt mag & compare it to a newly installed electronic ignition, either one can fail. The modern electronic ignition is maintenance free, where the mag will need a drop of oil on the oil wick on occasion,change the point in a few thousand miles (if necessary) & check the bearing grease after many thousands of miles. The magneto was replaced by the coil ignition because of price, not due to a fault of a magneto, and magnetos are used on many things today, even in this wonderful age of electronics. And as stated in an earlier post, when electronics go, they tend to go down with little , or no notice, where the tendency of a magneto is if it is starting to fail, it tends do so over long period of time. Failure of a mag is usually due to lack of maintenance.

Mallory makes an awesome magneto for you Ford, if you are looing for a superior ignition to the electronic black box you have now

As to TV sets, well............. ask any electronics repair shop which TV sets lasted longer , the old type or the new ones & you will be quite suprized!!!! To be fair, we can make a TV that will last for 20 years, but now days everybody wants cheap,cheap, cheap. As a kid growing up we only bought 2-3 TV's my whole childhood( the first one had vacuum tubes) , try that today.

I find that overall, for the money, a magneto is more reliable, less costly, and repairable. Those thongs are the most important to me. We all have different needs & opinions, so its nice that we have so many options to choose from.

As the electronic "magnetos" go, I do really like the BTH one.

Skip Brolund

Hello Eugene Well Your talking too someone one your side of the fence here , But this product Electrexworld.co.uk I have nothing too do with it my self , I just trying to point out too member there is a better way , Not all Norton dominator's and Singles were fitted with a Magneto allot of machines were fitted with coil ignition From 1958 onwards , And if you read on Electrexworld.co.uk web site you find that there products are made in Japan and Japanese Electrics are some of the best , I am going to find out more about these products the interesting one is STK-102D But as Some members have rightly pointed out the lighting coils are only give out 50Watts witch is not enough power our put, for the lights on a Norton Motorcycle , So I will contact this company And point this out too them and see what they have too say, So I will keep everyone posted, yours Anna J

14 comments, to date, all wittering on about the same electronic kit. For goodness sake give it a rest! Anyone interested can look at the web site themselves, most of us are not!

Hmm, we might agree John! Very stoic of you to count the fourteen.

NOC Moderators, two suggestions: 1) contributors who press the 'reply to this button', and fill pages with repeated text, will be provided with electronic erasers. 2) contributors who say the same thing more than twice in the same thread will be offered an immediate, two-week expenses paid holiday at a location that has no wi-fi.

Anna - if the rear light and brake lights are replaced with led, then 50W could be enough, question is: 50W at how many RPM? if it's more than 2500, and it drops off quickly below that, it sounds like a problem. Look forward to hearing what you find out, seriously considering this mod.

In response to Eugene, my experience has been that mechanical kit can be super reliable, electrical and electronic kit can be extremely reliable too. Electro/mechanical kit (eg magnetos) tends to be relatively flaky.

Condensers - electrolytic types tend to have a limited life, as their can sealing is not 100%, other capacitor types have an indefinite life AFAIK. The electrolytics in my 1964 jukebox are still going strong, had to replace the ones in my 1973 Cambridge R50's recently.

Steve

I think this has run it's course now. At the end of the day you pays your money and all that. We are fortunate we live in a time where there is lots of choise.

I ran BT-H for 10 years. Before this I to had magneto troubles and spent a fortune with a number of mag builders myself before developing these new units and I am sure there are some good mag rebuilder out there that can sort thing out.

However over the years in my work I must have spoken to thousands of people and most had this same problem.

Many Like myself had spent a lot of money haveing them reconditioned and on average 6 months to two years was about the norm before the classic "will not start hot" came back. Just speaking as I find.

Tony