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Dynojet

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Dynojet

Posted by graham_leblond at November 25. 2016

Hi  I have spoken to Dynojet UK a the NEC show and today I received an email that they are considering developing something for the 961 range.   They may need a bike in the Lancashire area to look at etc.  I will know more within a few weeks ands keep the forum updated.

Re: Dynojet

Posted by steven_eccleshall at May 07. 2017

Previously graham_leblond wrote:

Hi  I have spoken to Dynojet UK a the NEC show and today I received an email that they are considering developing something for the 961 range.   They may need a bike in the Lancashire area to look at etc.  I will know more within a few weeks ands keep the forum updated.

Hi Graham, I got my bike dyno'd independently last November and it showed it was running very rich throughout the whole range.  I was going to get the bike remapped down here in Surrey and after talking to Norton thought I had the "Go" as I am out of Warranty, so booked it in, identified the OMEX ECU software, got the connection lead sorted etc, but on the day the software could not work because it needed the equivalent of a "pin" code from Norton.  Now, I have several views on this because they were so helpful to start I couldn't understand why they wouldn't give me the final bit of info......... I was grumpy. (Understatement).  I had quite a few conversations with Mark at Norton who explained very nicely and fairly that Norton's stance is that its their kit, they paid for it and would you expect BMW / Triumph / Whoever to give the public their ECU info and lose control of it??   Mark also explained that OMEX were rewriting ECU software to redress the poor running / cutting out / lumpyness and rich running.  Well it appears to be just being released to the dealers, so I am booking my 961 in to get "re-flashed" and will let you know how I get on.  There is a bit of a sour backdrop here for some owners though (if I have my facts right)  If your OMEX ECU has 630G in the serial number, then its a 30 min job so minimal cost.  If your OMEX ECU has 600 in the serial number its more involved and a bit more cost.  If you have a different non OMEX ECU the implications are worse cost wise as your 961 will need a retrofit to an OMEX ECU / Wiring etc.

My own personal view is - I still LOVE my 961 it looks great, yes I have had some niggly problems - the poor running despite other re-flashes - But I am still a fan of the bike.   I am lucky as I seem to have the best ECU situation so will hopefully cost me 30mins labour.   BUT I have to ask on behalf of everyone else, SURELY this should be a Warranty / Recall issue by Norton as it is so well documented that the bikes poor running has been pretty constant throughout and it can't be fair on some owners to make them pay for a manufacturers issue?  I am not posting this for a Anti Norton or Anti 961 response, I guess I am just naive and think this deserves a fair response at source!

will hopefully let you know how mine goes - Cheers Steve

Re: Dynojet

Posted by peter_banks at October 20. 2017

Previously steven_eccleshall wrote:

Previously graham_leblond wrote:

Hi  I have spoken to Dynojet UK a the NEC show and today I received an email that they are considering developing something for the 961 range.   They may need a bike in the Lancashire area to look at etc.  I will know more within a few weeks ands keep the forum updated.

Hi Graham, I got my bike dyno'd independently last November and it showed it was running very rich throughout the whole range.  I was going to get the bike remapped down here in Surrey and after talking to Norton thought I had the "Go" as I am out of Warranty, so booked it in, identified the OMEX ECU software, got the connection lead sorted etc, but on the day the software could not work because it needed the equivalent of a "pin" code from Norton.  Now, I have several views on this because they were so helpful to start I couldn't understand why they wouldn't give me the final bit of info......... I was grumpy. (Understatement).  I had quite a few conversations with Mark at Norton who explained very nicely and fairly that Norton's stance is that its their kit, they paid for it and would you expect BMW / Triumph / Whoever to give the public their ECU info and lose control of it??   Mark also explained that OMEX were rewriting ECU software to redress the poor running / cutting out / lumpyness and rich running.  Well it appears to be just being released to the dealers, so I am booking my 961 in to get "re-flashed" and will let you know how I get on.  There is a bit of a sour backdrop here for some owners though (if I have my facts right)  If your OMEX ECU has 630G in the serial number, then its a 30 min job so minimal cost.  If your OMEX ECU has 600 in the serial number its more involved and a bit more cost.  If you have a different non OMEX ECU the implications are worse cost wise as your 961 will need a retrofit to an OMEX ECU / Wiring etc.

My own personal view is - I still LOVE my 961 it looks great, yes I have had some niggly problems - the poor running despite other re-flashes - But I am still a fan of the bike.   I am lucky as I seem to have the best ECU situation so will hopefully cost me 30mins labour.   BUT I have to ask on behalf of everyone else, SURELY this should be a Warranty / Recall issue by Norton as it is so well documented that the bikes poor running has been pretty constant throughout and it can't be fair on some owners to make them pay for a manufacturers issue?  I am not posting this for a Anti Norton or Anti 961 response, I guess I am just naive and think this deserves a fair response at source!

will hopefully let you know how mine goes - Cheers Steve

Re: Dynojet

Posted by peter_banks at October 20. 2017

I have just read on the Yankee site that a fellow in Australia has had a P/C made for the BMW F800 fitted to his 961 number 12-009, and it has improved the running considerably.

I have emailed Dyno Jet UK to ask if they are going to make a unit for the 961 but have not had a reply yet. I Heard that some one on this side of the pond has already fitted one to their bike and if you are that person I would appreciate any info you could supply on this subject. Thanks in anticipation ....Pete

Re: Dynojet

Posted by peter_banks at November 01. 2017

I rang Dyno Jet to get some answers straight from the horses mouth so to speak , they told me that they have had more than one 961 in for evaluation but because they couldn't get consistent readings from two so called identical machines it was impossible to manufacture a generic unit to suit all the different readings they were getting. Because of this they have no intention of making a Power Commander for the 961 now or in the future.Frown

Re: Dynojet

Posted by niels_svane at November 02. 2017

Re: Dynojet

Posted by graham_leblond at November 02. 2017

If you look at their website it lists the same device for almost every machine available.   Not that sure as to its credentials but will happily be proved wrong.

 

As I understand it a PC for a BMW 800 will work but will require tuning on a  rolling road.   It seems to have proven effective on at least two bikes that I am aware of.

Re: Dynojet

Posted by dominic_gomes at November 03. 2017

Those chips are a fiddle to fool the temp/pressure sensor into thinking its colder than it really is and consequently richen the mixture. Not a proper solution. Especially as the 961 seems rich to start with.

Re: Dynojet

Posted by Clive Astley-Mynd at November 06. 2017

Hi - I understand that the stock bike is mapped to get through emission regs rather than performance so these gadgets richen the mixture outside 'new bike' legal settings. What you need is a proper ECU map: therein lies the problem - Triumph Thruxtons had several publically available maps to suit your intake/exhaust/cams but we don't have that luxury with the 961. I believe that the bike is strangled by the exhaust and cat so to make it run properly you need to to sort these out along with a factory provided remap. I have been told that this transforms the bike. I am still running my Cafe Racer in but I can feel a bad flat spot around 2800RPM. This whole factory upgrade is stupidly expensive and I would be interested how much it would be to get the remap (by a dealer?) and a third party decat/ exhaust option. For insurance/ warranty reasons I'll be going the factory route.

Re: Dynojet

Posted by peter_banks at November 07. 2017

Previously Clive Astley-Mynd wrote:

Hi - I understand that the stock bike is mapped to get through emission regs rather than performance so these gadgets richen the mixture outside 'new bike' legal settings. What you need is a proper ECU map: therein lies the problem - Triumph Thruxtons had several publically available maps to suit your intake/exhaust/cams but we don't have that luxury with the 961. I believe that the bike is strangled by the exhaust and cat so to make it run properly you need to to sort these out along with a factory provided remap. I have been told that this transforms the bike. I am still running my Cafe Racer in but I can feel a bad flat spot around 2800RPM. This whole factory upgrade is stupidly expensive and I would be interested how much it would be to get the remap (by a dealer?) and a third party decat/ exhaust option. For insurance/ warranty reasons I'll be going the factory route.

 

Re: Dynojet

Posted by peter_banks at November 07. 2017

I have a 2015 Sport that has been de-catted with the straight through zorst on it and it did indeed make a huge difference in starting running smoother and a glorious exhaust note to boot. The problem I am having now seems to be differing mixtures after the old girl gets warm and slightly uneven running on a steady throttle below 4k revs. I have talked to the factory and they are more than willing to have a look at the problem, unfortunately the weather is now turning and the gritters have already been out this way so it means a another fistful of dollars to get the old girl transported to Donnington . The other alternative is taking a spin over to Thirsk to the new Norton dealer there, it's just finding that window of reasonable weather to do it.

Re: Dynojet

Posted by william_hutchison at November 08. 2017

Hello Peter - Did you have the ecu re-mapped after fitting the x-pipe, and open silencers ?

Try changing the cam/speed sensor on the front of the engine. Bosch part number 0232103037. Make sure you buy a genuine Bosch part.

I changed the sensor on my 2016 MKII Sport, and noticed a great difference in the mid-range running, and pick up from the lower rev range. It also smoothed out the hunting at idle.

 

Re: Dynojet

Posted by Clive Astley-Mynd at November 09. 2017

Previously william_hutchison wrote:

Hello Peter - Did you have the ecu re-mapped after fitting the x-pipe, and open silencers ?

Try changing the cam/speed sensor on the front of the engine. Bosch part number 0232103037. Make sure you buy a genuine Bosch part.

I changed the sensor on my 2016 MKII Sport, and noticed a great difference in the mid-range running, and pick up from the lower rev range. It also smoothed out the hunting at idle.

 

Hi William,

I have just got a Cafe Racer and have been aware of the sensor debate - particularly ref AccessNorton site. Did you have the rough running and idling from new and was the sensor you removed a Bosch part or OEM? Are Norton saving a few quid and causing reliability issues?

Kindest Regards,

Clive AM

Update; asked about sensors at the Anniversary model launch and apparently the sensors and coil packs are now genuine Bosch. They tried some alternatives for a short while but reverted back. Now we know....

Re: Dynojet

Posted by gino_rondelli at November 09. 2017

You guys are talking about new motorcycles I assume, not something that was designed in the 60's? Strange they can't get a solution........ I wonder how they will fare with the V4?

Gino

Re: Dynojet

Posted by Clive Astley-Mynd at November 10. 2017

Previously gino_rondelli wrote:

You guys are talking about new motorcycles I assume, not something that was designed in the 60's? Strange they can't get a solution........ I wonder how they will fare with the V4?

Gino

Hi Gino,

I wish modern manufacturers had the freedom of the 1960s to produce bikes which were tuned for the rider rather than the European legislators.

I admire Norton for not just rolling over and producing a watercooled Eurobike with an exhaust the size of a dustbin so we need to make compromises to have a bike like the 961, and reverting it back to how it was designed to run. I'm sure you have seen criticism in the press of big brand modern machines spoiled by 'Euro 4' compliance.

Regards CliveAM

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