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Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

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Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by mike_steer at December 12. 2017

Trying to 'close up' the timing side cover to the crankcase with a new spring and plunger.

Problem

The bottom of the casing won't push up to the crankcase with the spring

and plunger in place, fine without it.

My feeling is that the old spring and plunger is still in the casing, stuck.  I don't recall seeing it on the engine breakdown hence why I ordered a new set. I don't want

to start picking around in there till I am sure that my hunch is right. Could someone

have a look at the pic I have attached to confirm either way please? I was thinking

that the insert visible was pushed into the casing to give the spring a solid base to operate from?

Attachments

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by Barry Carson at December 12. 2017

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by Martin Freeman at December 12. 2017

You are right,there is already a plunger in there; the plunger is only there to press on oil pump seal when engine is stopped; when running it is pushed by oil pressure into casing until cross drilling is exposed allowing oil to pass along gallery to feed end of crank. only problem is how to remove it if it is stuck/ may nell have no spring behind it; if all else fails -as you have a spare - drill centre of it so you can screw a self tapping screw in to pull on. I may come out by warming case and tapping it on a flat wooden surface.

regards Martin

NB that isn't a lump of metal I see in the gallery is it

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by Martin Freeman at December 12. 2017

 

NB that isn't a lump of metal I see in the gallery is it

should have said in lower hole in pic - one that supports half time pinion

Martin

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by Neil Wyatt at December 12. 2017

These things have a history of getting stuck.

Once you have it to how the factory intended, my tip is to give the timing case, over the ball and spring area a sharp tap with a rubber mallet before start up after a lay up of a couple of weeks or more. Also after you stop the engibe. This appears to work for me with wet sumping taking over a month on 20/50 oil with engine left on compression..

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by james_fanning at December 13. 2017

Old one definitely stuck in there. Had identical problem when rebuilding my Mk 3 some years ago. Remember getting it out by carefully drilling in centre of old plunger and screwing in a self tapping screw , then pulling on it. Recall plunger was really stuck in its orifice and had to make several attempts with the self tapping screw as it kept pulling out of its drilled hole. In the end , with plunger only part way out , recall had to drill hole larger and use a homemade hook to finally get it out.

Found this Mk 3 anti-wet sumping arrangement never worked very well anyway and in the end fitted a Mick Hemmings device which has worked well and trouble free (observing the golden rules of priming it after each oil change and always checking oil return to tank before a run).

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by mike_steer at December 15. 2017

Previously Martin Freeman wrote:

You are right,there is already a plunger in there; the plunger is only there to press on oil pump seal when engine is stopped; when running it is pushed by oil pressure into casing until cross drilling is exposed allowing oil to pass along gallery to feed end of crank. only problem is how to remove it if it is stuck/ may nell have no spring behind it; if all else fails -as you have a spare - drill centre of it so you can screw a self tapping screw in to pull on. I may come out by warming case and tapping it on a flat wooden surface.

regards Martin

NB that isn't a lump of metal I see in the gallery is it

 

Martin many thanks for the feedback, appreciated.  It does look like a lump in there but not the case.

 

regards

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by mike_steer at December 15. 2017

Previously james_fanning wrote:

Old one definitely stuck in there. Had identical problem when rebuilding my Mk 3 some years ago. Remember getting it out by carefully drilling in centre of old plunger and screwing in a self tapping screw , then pulling on it. Recall plunger was really stuck in its orifice and had to make several attempts with the self tapping screw as it kept pulling out of its drilled hole. In the end , with plunger only part way out , recall had to drill hole larger and use a homemade hook to finally get it out.

Found this Mk 3 anti-wet sumping arrangement never worked very well anyway and in the end fitted a Mick Hemmings device which has worked well and trouble free (observing the golden rules of priming it after each oil change and always checking oil return to tank before a run).

 

James many thanks for the feedback, appreciated

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by mike_steer at December 15. 2017

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

These things have a history of getting stuck.

Once you have it to how the factory intended, my tip is to give the timing case, over the ball and spring area a sharp tap with a rubber mallet before start up after a lay up of a couple of weeks or more. Also after you stop the engibe. This appears to work for me with wet sumping taking over a month on 20/50 oil with engine left on compression..

 

Neil many thanks for the feedback, appreciated

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by Alan Sessions at December 16. 2017

Also crankshaft oil seal appears to be in the wrong way round - pressure (open) side should be towards the timing cover - see section C26 of workshop manual

Re: 850 Mk3 Timing Side Spring and plunger

Posted by peter_shand at December 16. 2017

Hello

There is a tiny bleed hole  (under the arrow in the picture) if you get an air line with a small blow gun attachment you can blow the plunger back out of its hole. crankshaft seal definatley in the wrong way round. spring side should always be towards the pressure.

I had this with the camshaft seal when i first stripped down and overhauled my mk3 engine. P.O. had installed the seal backwards, spring towards the points, no wonder the cam dribbled oil!

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