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Re building front wheel.

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Re building front wheel.

Posted by neil_hall at December 04. 2018

Hello. Can anyone recommend an easy to follow step by step guid on how to rebuild my Norton Commando wheel rim. My intention is to have my front rim rechromed and built back up. I know that a wheel is a wheel but would like to know if any books / video exist that would explain this.

thanks.

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by john_holmes at December 04. 2018

Drum or disc, the front disc one is the hardest wheel to do and best left until you have done a few easier respokes.

 

http://www.oldbritts.com/lacing_info.html

 

The problem with the disc is that on one side the spokes are nearly vertical, when you try to put any tension on the opposite side spokes it pulls the rim over, the factory instructions have the operator standing on the assembly to push the spokes vertical. The other issue is that not all rim suppliers make the rim correctly with the holes on the dimple drilled for the vertical spokes drilled on the opposite side to normal as the factory did, this was to add a slight angle to the spoke away from vertical so stick to the OEM. rim, Andover Norton now drill this rim correctly but only recently.

The other tip is always to adjust the nipples on the  spokes to get the rim to run nearly true before you start to tension the spokes, if you start tensioning hoping to pull the rim back in line the spokes will not be evenly tensioned and you will need to start again. The exception to this is the weld, ignore the hop at the weld during the initial setting, when you start tensioning then you can adjust the spokes close by to minimise the hop you get, but only minimise it, you will never get it out completely.

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/disk-brake-front-rim-dimple-pattern.26360/#post-393894

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by neil_hall at December 04. 2018

Previously john_holmes wrote:

Drum or disc, the front disc one is the hardest wheel to do and best left until you have done a few easier respokes.

 

http://www.oldbritts.com/lacing_info.html

 

The problem with the disc is that on one side the spokes are nearly vertical, when you try to put any tension on the opposite side spokes it pulls the rim over, the factory instructions have the operator standing on the assembly to push the spokes vertical. The other issue is that not all rim suppliers make the rim correctly with the holes on the dimple drilled for the vertical spokes drilled on the opposite side to normal as the factory did, this was to add a slight angle to the spoke away from vertical so stick to the OEM. rim, Andover Norton now drill this rim correctly but only recently.

The other tip is always to adjust the nipples on the  spokes to get the rim to run nearly true before you start to tension the spokes, if you start tensioning hoping to pull the rim back in line the spokes will not be evenly tensioned and you will need to start again. The exception to this is the weld, ignore the hop at the weld during the initial setting, when you start tensioning then you can adjust the spokes close by to minimise the hop you get, but only minimise it, you will never get it out completely.

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/disk-brake-front-rim-dimple-pattern.26360/#post-393894

Hello. The bike is a Roadster mk2a, so has the front disc break. As I have never done any wheel building before it’s probably not worth the hassle of making a mess of it. If it had been normal drum break then possibly I would have had a go.

thanks for your advice.

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by richard_tool at December 05. 2018

Hi Neil - why not give it a go ? Do the back wheel first to gain some experience then tackle the front.

If it proves too difficult take it apart carefully and then have someone do it for you.

i did both back drum  and front disc wheels on my 72 Commando after previously only doing one set as my first time for my ES2.

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by john_holmes at December 05. 2018

As you are getting the original rim re-chromed then all the holes will be in the right places, if it does go wrong the worst that can happen is you have to find someone local to redo it for you. As you would already have all the parts no need to send it off to CWC, a good local bike shop with a truing stand is all that's needed, there is nothing to break unless you are really hamfisted with the muscles of a gorilla.

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by neil_hall at December 05. 2018

Previously john_holmes wrote:

As you are getting the original rim re-chromed then all the holes will be in the right places, if it does go wrong the worst that can happen is you have to find someone local to redo it for you. As you would already have all the parts no need to send it off to CWC, a good local bike shop with a truing stand is all that's needed, there is nothing to break unless you are really hamfisted with the muscles of a gorilla.

Yes, the rims are original, so that is a good idea to have a go at the back wheel first. The spokes have been changed at some point so I would expect them to come out ok. The next thing is to find a place that will rechrome the rim, any advice with this would be appreciated as I’ve here’d there is good and bad out there.

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by richard_tool at December 05. 2018

I don't know how it is in the UK but here across the pond in the former colonies many chrome shops would prefer not to do rims - I am told the holes/dimples tear up the buffing wheels .

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by richard_mills at December 05. 2018

I would suggest taking photographs to show the lacing patterns before stripping the wheels.

 

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by gary_painter at December 05. 2018

Yes definitely take plenty of photos and do drawings with measurement too, especially the offset of the rim from the hub. Try and measure this with a straight edge across some good reference point like the flat of the disc mounting face.

Radco gives a good tip in his book and refers mainly to building very old twin rims (for belt drives) and others that have strange offsets... It might help with the vertical spoke syndrome and avoid having someone stand on it whilst lacing?!

He holds the hub firmly onto a board, presumably via it's own spindle and nut, then fixes accurate blocks on the base board, around points of the rim so as to support both rim and hub in their relative juxtapositions.

The idea being that they will retain this position with the spokes removed.

A discreet mark on the hub and reference to the valve hole on the rim, could be enough to return them both to the jig in the same places, meaning that all the spokes can be fitted and even gently tensioned before placing into cones for final tensioning and trueing.... It's a thought innit?

Re: Re building front wheel.

Posted by richard_tool at December 05. 2018

Previously gary_painter wrote:

Yes definitely take plenty of photos and do drawings with measurement too, especially the offset of the rim from the hub. Try and measure this with a straight edge across some good reference point like the flat of the disc mounting face.

Radco gives a good tip in his book and refers mainly to building very old twin rims (for belt drives) and others that have strange offsets... It might help with the vertical spoke syndrome and avoid having someone stand on it whilst lacing?!

He holds the hub firmly onto a board, presumably via it's own spindle and nut, then fixes accurate blocks on the base board, around points of the rim so as to support both rim and hub in their relative juxtapositions.

The idea being that they will retain this position with the spokes removed.

A discreet mark on the hub and reference to the valve hole on the rim, could be enough to return them both to the jig in the same places, meaning that all the spokes can be fitted and even gently tensioned before placing into cones for final tensioning and trueing.... It's a thought innit?

I used the jig / fixture method to hold the rim concentric with the hub with the proper offset to start on my ES 2 rims and it worked well enough I suppose as this was my first attempt at wheel building .

I made a similar fixture for building the Commando wheels but it proved impossible to lace the spokes while the hub and rim were installed in the jig.

I don't know if the Mk II pattern is the same as my 72 750 Combat roadster but I can take photos of new built wheel as well as an original spare I have if needed .

By all means try it yourself- as I and others have noted you can always take it apart again. If your bugger up the nipples buy more - they are not that costly.

i bought a very economical truing stand on e Bay and had a dial indicator - if you don't have one they are useful for finding TDC among other things as well so you may want to buy one if you don't have one. There are various tutorials on the Internet to help you but single biggest thing you will need beyond the wheel components and truing stand / dial indicator/ spoke wrench is PATIENCE.

Go VERY slowly and work around the rim in tiny increments- don't be tempted to try to make the correction in one go . Make a tiny bit at the spoke where the adjustment is needed and then even smaller adjustments on the flanking spokes. As others have said ignore the inevitable bump at the weld - this will show up both radially ( concentricity) and axialy ( wobble).

Also remember that the tire itself will take take up a little of any error.

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