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1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

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1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 06. 2017

Today I got the rest of the painted parts in blue and the tank in blue/dove gray.

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Perfekt paint!

Firstly I made a cosy home for he battery, I found some blue styrofoam. Has some racing history! I bought a seat base for my Commando from Joe Seifert, he used it on one of his racing bikes with the blue styrofoam on it- but not for long....

 

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Switches, ammeter and speedo went into the lamp housing but not wired yet.

The right switch is just for decoration, I made a conversion to 12 volts and made a new simplier wiring loom.

 

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I forgot to take the styling panel at the headstock with my. Still at the paint shop.

The tank panels will soon be on the way to Slovenia for rechroming. A friend visits his family over there for christmas and found a good an cheap chroming shop. Hopefully I get the parts back after the holidays because the bike should be on show at a motorcycle show in Friedrichshafen at the end of January.

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Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 06. 2017

Well done.  It is looking good.  By the way your speedometer is not the correct item for a Jubilee or Navigator.  The dial shows a figure of 1760 (cable turns per mile) and goes up to 80 miles per hour; correct speedo is 1600 turns per mile and goes up to 100 miles per hour.  So it will not show the correct speed - it will indicate a lower speed than actual so be careful in the city speed limits.

Patrick

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Dan Field at December 06. 2017

Looks like left hand drive to me ..... my ignition switch is on the other side, but which is right?!

For what it’s worth I think mine has the same speedo as that.

Did you get the front mudguard sorted?

dan

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 06. 2017

Thanks for the hint, Patrick.

Dan, I spoke to the man who welded the indent and he said the only way to make it fit is to cut up the indent, bent it an add a stripe of metal so that the radius is bigger- which means new paint also.

I leave as it is at the moment, just for the bike show.

Don´t know if the speedo has been changed sometime.  But if Dan has also this type of speedo, mmmh??

Maybe a different drive at the rear wheel?

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 06. 2017

Yes there are potentially all sorts of different ratios for the rear wheel gearbox as well !.  The 'correct' one to match the 1600 speedo is a 2:1 ratio.  The 1600 speedo is quite hard to find at auto jumbles as it may be unique to the Norton lightweights (and possibly the Francis Barnett Cruiser.)

There are all sorts of different of different 'cable turn ' numbers as this Smiths speedo design was used on all sorts of Francis Barnetts, BSA Bantams, Triumph Tiger Cub, James, etc.  It is only when you start looking seriously at  the speedo face that you discover how many different versions there are.  The first part of the reference number also varies as well;  SN3153/95   1600   100MPH on both my Navigators;  the earlier 1959 Jubilees have a 80MPH speedo and it's a different SN number.

I  agree with Uli's switches;  ignition switch on the right but I doubt if it is critical unless you are VERY seriously into concours.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 06. 2017

I had a Honda VFR400 a few years ago and the MOT man failed it because the speedo was in KmH. I had to put a sticker on the dial reading in MPH.

Will the TUV Inspector query your MPH speedo?

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Dan Field at December 07. 2017

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

I  agree with Uli's switches;  ignition switch on the right but I doubt if it is critical unless you are VERY seriously into concours.

 

 

Damn that means mine is left hand drive!

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 07. 2017

He didn´t query it on my Commando also with mph scale, as long as GB is part of the EU it doesn´t matter...

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

I had a Honda VFR400 a few years ago and the MOT man failed it because the speedo was in KmH. I had to put a sticker on the dial reading in MPH.

Will the TUV Inspector query your MPH speedo?

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 07. 2017

You got to reach the switch with the left hand when the right hand holds the throttle wide open and suddenly it gets dark!

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

I  agree with Uli's switches;  ignition switch on the right but I doubt if it is critical unless you are VERY seriously into concours.

 

 

Damn that means mine is left hand drive!

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Dan Field at December 07. 2017

This is mine

 

Rattle can respray for now

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Dan Field at December 07. 2017

Not that speedo is much better than a chocolate fire guard, it still swings a good 10mph radius once moving! I have a new one from ebay I might try plus the ammeter is just a push fit at the moment.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 07. 2017

Hi Dan,

That speedo looks fine to me. It is highly likely the correct one for a 1960 Jubilee.  A needle swinging about is usually a cable fault- have you tried re-routing the cable to get the bend as smooth as possible or maybe some light oil on the inner cable.

Here's the flight deck of the Yamton - the 120 mph speedo and the rev counter do work. The headlight is the standard 5 3/4" but the original 'tell tales' have been replaced by warning lights for Neutral and Oil Pressure.

 

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Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 07. 2017

Here's the one that would really suit Uli's Navigator.  It's a KmH speedo for a Navigator.

We are a bit mixed up here ; we still use MPH and miles here in the North but a few miles away in the Republic we use KmH and kilometers.

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Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 08. 2017

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F322916535221

Just bought this speedo, needs dome work but has the right numbers

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 08. 2017

Well done.  You certainly don't hang around.  I had forgotten about the Ariel Arrow as a potential user but from now on it is a Norton Navigator speedo. Both my Navigators have this same reference number but they both have a white marker line at 30MPH.  It is amazing the differences even when they have the same reference .  They are 60mm- not 2" -and you can get the correct new chrome rim on Ebay UK.

It will keep you gainfully employed taking it apart and renovating.  You can do this over Christmas sitting by a big fire in the living room.  The first proper snow has just fallen here last night - so I'm staying away from my workshop until the Spring comes.

 

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 08. 2017

By the way if you do get a new rim make sure you get the 'flat' one.  There are two different profiles.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by john_hall1 at December 08. 2017

Nice work, love the blue colour, always hated dull colours on motorcycles!

Just to encourage you an amusing film on YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dq29LKzMkQ

 

Patrick, where are you with that snow?

Cheers

 

John H

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 08. 2017

Hi John,

I'm in Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland, about 15Kms from the (no)border with the Republic. Our vehicles here are subject to MOT (done at special Government test centres so different to the English version), or NCT if you live 10 miles away, but we all know they are very much the same as the German TUV.  (TUV here has a different political meaning !!)

Picture of my front lawn taken just now - it is still snowing and temperatures will be well minus tonight.

Patrick

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Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 09. 2017

I fitted the front styling panel for the headstock an routed all the cables through it.

Clutchcable and chokecable through the right hole (seen on the left) and the wiring loom through the left hole.

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Gas cable goes through the hole top right.

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I can push the tank forward until it hits the panel but when I fix it with the screw at the back there is a gap  between the tank and the panel.

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Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 09. 2017

That does look neat and tidy.  We really need an opinion from Andy as to what is strictly correct-does anyone else know?.  My opinion is that the wiring loom through the left hand hole is correct; throttle(gas) cable through the right hand top is correct.  I have the choke cable and the wires to the horn through the bottom right.  Neither of my Navigator clutch cables were long enough to go this route and didn't allow free movement of the handlebars.  So if you are happy with the operation of the cables your routing is much better than my version.  My clutch cable just runs behind the top left hand of the styling panel but my excuse is that the clutch operates smoothly that way.

Everyone of my Jubilees/Navigators has a gap between the panel and the tank.

 

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 26. 2017

Getting there:

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The chromed fork seal holders are a tad short..

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Just pinned together. After that pic I changed changed the handlebars to the straight "drag bars" with a bar end mirror.

The seat has to be corrected, the "hump" in the middle has to be shaved and the cover needs to be straightened.

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The correct speedo arrived before christmas and was cleaned but not yet tested. I was lucky to find a NOS Wipac ammeter in the colonies which is also on it's way to good old Europe. After the motorcycle show at the end of January details will be fixed and lubricants filled and hopefully the enigne will be fired up.

It had to get off the lift to make place for my Beemer which is in need for a new clutch which is a major operation..

 

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Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at December 26. 2017

Hello Uli,

OIL SEAL HOLDERS TOO SHORT.

You may already have checked this but have you screwed the damper rods fully into the chrome nuts at the top of the fork legs?  This is often forgotten when assembling.

Nice BM.  I thought that BMW's never broke down.

Patrick

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 27. 2017

Patrick, I guess I ordered the wrong oil seal holders . They must be for an early Commando with rubber gaitors. The original ones were slightly longer to reach into the top shrouds. The damper rods are fully home.

And yes , Beemers need some attention but a new clutch is ok.

It´s the second one since 1983  and 70.000 kilometres.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by kelvin_potter at December 28. 2017

What a lovely job indeed, I have recently had a bit of encouragement to actually finish my own Jubilee, it’s sat around for seven years now, do you have any idea of the paint code number, I fancy going for a copy of your colors.

Thank you Kelvin (Isle of Man)

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at December 29. 2017

Kelvin, for the blue I chose RAL 5019 Capriblue (Capriblau)

and for the dove gray RAL 1013 pearlwhite (perlweiss in german).

No special mixed colours because the frame was powdercoated

andthe tinware painted, the colours should match and the powdercoater could only use RAL colours.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by kelvin_potter at January 03. 2018

Hi Ulrich, thank you for the reply. I shall check with the two powder coaters we have on the Island.

Cheers Kelvin.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Ulrich Hoffmann at March 30. 2018

And she runs!

But we have the good, the bad and the ugly!

The good:

Running, started on the third kick, no major oil leaks, oil flows back in the oil tank.

Brakes are working. Lights, horn and brake light also. Ewarts fuel tap is not leaking.

The bad:

Jumps out of first gear, clutch needs to be sorted, clutch hand  lever does not go back all the way when pulled.

The ugly:

Me on the bike...Wink

At first start she was idling way to high although the idle screw on the carb was all the way out. The  free lenght of the gas cable was to short. I mounted a carb cover with adjustment screws and the cable must have been for a cover without them. So I soldered a new one which was a tad longer and now she runs fine.

Jumping out of first gear is a major issue, isn´t it?

Adjusting that clutch also!

No matter what I did the clutch plate did not lift parallel . I turned the spring adjustment collars in and out with no effect. So I thought when been driven a while it will settle. I put about 200ml ATF oil into the primary drive like on my Commando.

Will attack these problems after the Easter holidays!

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by robert_tuck at March 30. 2018

Is the primary chain tight?,that will mess up gearchange and pull the clutch out of line. A bit loose is better than tight.

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by Dan Field at March 30. 2018

As I recall jumping out of first is a layshaft issue that can be solved by shimming it?

https://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical3-light-twins-forum/321440639/596735320

dan

Re: 1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Posted by patrick_mullen at March 30. 2018

Well done.

Jumping out of first gear should be easy enough to sort with a shim but let it run a bit first and see how things settle in.

If the clutch lever isn't going all the way back to the handlebars then there is something very wrong in the clutch adjustment; it sounds like the clutch actuating arm is going over centre.  Screw in the cable adjuster until you have excessive slack in the cable then adjust the clutch push rod by using the adjuster nut in the centre of the clutch pressure plate. (Take off the primary cover to do this )  Then readjust the cable to give about 4/5mm free play.

Happy Easter. There is more snow forecast for here over the weekend.

 

 

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