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Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

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Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by roy_sherrington at December 13. 2017

Hi all, 2nd time here for me, however I have bought a Dominator 99 that has no papers at all and I’m just interested to see how difficult it’s going to be to get registered on an age related plate! Any suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks Roy

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by john_holmes at December 13. 2017

If you get a dating cert and it says the bike has both engine and frame numbers as left the factory and was despatched to a UK dealer then you should not need any more paperwork. If gets more complicated if the engine and frame are mixed or if it went overseas.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by roy_sherrington at December 13. 2017

Previously john_holmes wrote:

If you get a dating cert and it says the bike has both engine and frame numbers as left the factory and was despatched to a UK dealer then you should not need any more paperwork. If gets more complicated if the engine and frame are mixed or if it went overseas.

Great, thanks John, I shall get my info together and spend some pennies with the club to investigate further, it is matching numbers so hopefully it will be straightforward. Thanks

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by john_holmes at December 13. 2017

If the dating cert confirms its matching and went to a UK dealer you are just going to apply for an age related plate for a new registration, no different than when an off road bike is registered for the road many years later so should be straight forward. It will probably be inspected as this is increasing to make sure modern bikes are not being passed off as old bikes but my B44 took all of 30 secs for that inspection, they just looked at the frame and engine numbers.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by anthony_curzon at December 13. 2017

You will also need an MOT, and Insurance, as well as proof of ID, and a utility bill to prove who you are. You will also need a form 75/5 I think that you will need to fill in. Now the DVLA  has closed all their regional centres to save money, you will have to post it all off to Swansea and hope that they will allocate a registration number to your Norton. It can take up to two weeks, and that is what my one took to get one, but they are very good and no where near as bad as some owners have said that they are. Their regional centres were very good and it would only take about 5 to 10 minutes for them to complete all the paper work, you pay the £55 I think and then they would post you the registration number in about 3 days.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 13. 2017

Close , the form is a v55/5 !

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Neil Wyatt at December 13. 2017

Not all bikes left the factory with matching frame and engine numbers and that includes early Norton's. Matching numbers helps but it is not the deal breaker!

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Gordon Johnston at December 13. 2017

Won't need an MoT if its pre-1960.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by anthony_curzon at December 13. 2017

I think you do if you want to register it and some times they want a picture to confirm it is a complete bike.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by John Shorter at December 13. 2017

You do not need a MOT, or insurance, to get a registration number, before the bike is to be used on the road (it could be registered, and on SORN).

Regarding matching numbers, all Dominators would have these.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by ian_soady at December 14. 2017
Previously anthony_curzon wrote:

Their regional centres were very good and it would only take about 5 to 10 minutes for them to complete all the paper work, you pay the £55 I think and then they would post you the registration number in about 3 days.

That's true but you usually had to wait for 45 minutes behind all the taxi drivers (at least in Brum)!

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by anthony_curzon at December 14. 2017

I used to go to the one in Brighton and there was hardly any waiting time and the staff were very good and it was all done very quickly. It is a very sadly missed resource that we can still use due to the DVLA cuts.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 14. 2017

I found the Exeter VRO was by far the best ;)

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by paul_standeven at December 14. 2017

I imported my Model 88 from New Zealand two years ago.  I had original registtration documents from New Zealand.  It is an original, matching numbers bike, so everything tallied.  The DVLA demanded all original documents, which they promised to return to me on request.  In the event, the registration was processed in around 2 weeks, but their idea of 'returning original documents' does not match anyone else's - they sent me a print-out of their scanning of my documents.  If any document should be retained for historical reasons, DO NOT LET THE DVLA GET HOLD OF IT.

Paul

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Gordon Johnston at December 14. 2017

I registered a no-docs bike a few of weeks ago. It needed a dating certificate. It was insured but no MoT required or done. Took about 2 weeks to get the V5, all documents were returned safely.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 14. 2017

As I recall foreign reg documents are not returned as they are valid documents, dating certs etc are more like supporting docs. Buts it’s been a while since I worked there. With some imports I think we used to stamp them with the uk reg Mark. It prob depends on the country of origin.

However they should have told you that at the time.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by roy_sherrington at December 16. 2017

Thanks for the advice gents

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by michael_sullivan at December 17. 2017

Will the DVLA accept certified copies of the originals?  That way you might be able to retain all the originals.

Mike

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 17. 2017

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at December 18. 2017

hello after all this advice no one has told you anything  about dating the frame  which is whats registered   frame date is on the frame  knowing where to look is the next thing to do,  the frame date is stamp marked on the top edge of the top lug for the cylinder  head- steady you may need to remove some paint work  to see it is very small stamp marking, like my 1954 dominator model 88 say D/4/54  this means D for Dominator. 4 for April . 54 the year, a model 99  will be 14-xxxxx the number, model 99 started life in September 1955 and ended in October 1962  sadly  along with two singles cylinder models  the Manx was made in privet hands after this date,  do give  Dave Catton a call for the right paperwork and dating certificate without these is a no go At DVLA      yours  Anna J

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 18. 2017

Anna

With a normal restoration you’d be correct, but in the case of a bike built from various parts of different ages the registration mark is given in respect of the newest part. So if you built an ES2 with a commando gear box you could well get a 1970’s reg Mark.

Dan

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Neil Wyatt at December 19. 2017

That's interesting Dan, because the only time I have ever been asked for a gearbox number is when I applied for historic status for my 76, made in 75 Commando. And that was through the club. All other bikes, except my 99 were dated etc through the VMCC. Gearbox never mentioned inc the 99.

I wonder who is going to date my 57 (Whoops, already done it) Model 50?

I think just about all 99's with the exception of the first year were AMC boxes anyway, so who's to know?

I take your point however, if you declare an AMC box on a 16H for example. In my experience the date of the frame has been all but times, people and rules can change.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by ian_soady at December 19. 2017

I'd be very surprised if anyone at the DVLA would know the difference between an AMC and earlier boxes.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 19. 2017

They prob won’t but the person doing the dating letter from the club in respect of a built up bike probably will! It’s all on the .gov website. There’s a difference between a bike with matching numbers and a new gearbox and a bike with a ES2 pre featherbed frame, M50 engine and a matchless box! Ie like mine will be!

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Neil Wyatt at December 19. 2017

I should be OK then, Dan, with a 57 Model 50 frame, a 59 Model 50 engine and an AMC box. (Original since 57) Apart from a chromed but original type headlamp shell, (Thanks Lex) Alternator engine / outer case and a pear drop silencer it will look just the job in original colours. Oh, a 626 carb too. (No filter YET)

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Dan Field at December 19. 2017

Mine won’t be much different! But I need a tank and mudguards, I’ve got a front of sorts, but not a back yet.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at December 19. 2017

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Anna

With a normal restoration you’d be correct, but in the case of a bike built from various parts of different ages the registration mark is given in respect of the newest part. So if you built an ES2 with a commando gear box you could well get a 1970’s reg Mark.

Dan

hello, Dan well I think I have one of these rebuilds just waiting in the wings it's now in hiding in the  Old wooden sorner now unused, but will be dragged out sometime this next year  for me to sort out, it has two engines  to choose  from a 1963 atlas or a 1958 model 99, my favourite is the model 99  which would look the part in two-tone grey the frame is from an export 650 1963 slimline  and all tinware to go with it the only thing missing is the gearbox and clutch  so we need an AMC Mk2  sercum 1961   and the Atlas Motor will make a good off road bike  1963 scrambler ,   so wish me some luck  yours  anna j

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Neil Wyatt at December 19. 2017

Good Luck, Anna.

Dan, if your required rear mudguard is like my 57 rear, then the nearest you will get to it is a wideline. The club has not held these in stock for years, I ended up bringing back a new old stock repro from New Zealand. (Thank you Marcus) Not seen another since.

I expect India (God help you) is your best bet for a tank. Actually the chrome tank panels on my tank were from an AJS and I had to modify. That reminds me, my front mudguard is from a 56 Dommie so don't look for a V at the front.

The one part the club did supply for this bike was the centre stand but that was totally wrong and had to be re-made. I still need a spring for it. But if necessary I'll just keep it up with a couple of cable ties as the original side stand is spot on.  Norvil did supply the correct spring for that one, sadly not for the centre stand and of course the club had none.

Following ten years of grief I had better get it registered or I'll post pictures where certain individuals can practice dart throwing.

Peace on Earth, good will to all men.

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at December 20. 2017

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Good Luck, Anna.

Dan, if your required rear mudguard is like my 57 rear, then the nearest you will get to it is a wideline. The club has not held these in stock for years, I ended up bringing back a new old stock repro from New Zealand. (Thank you Marcus) Not seen another since.

I expect India (God help you) is your best bet for a tank. Actually the chrome tank panels on my tank were from an AJS and I had to modify. That reminds me, my front mudguard is from a 56 Dommie so don't look for a V at the front.

The one part the club did supply for this bike was the centre stand but that was totally wrong and had to be re-made. I still need a spring for it. But if necessary I'll just keep it up with a couple of cable ties as the original side stand is spot on.  Norvil did supply the correct spring for that one, sadly not for the centre stand and of course the club had none.

Following ten years of grief I had better get it registered or I'll post pictures where certain individuals can practice dart throwing.

Peace on Earth, good will to all men.

 

 

Hello Niel well the 99 Motor will be going in a 650 slimline frame  that was a export bike  and its come back has a frame  and some tin ware  the mudguards are with it  as is the slimline tank  there be NO Indian bit on this build  we find the original parts there out there we have fun looking    have you all a very good Christmas  from me and my cats  all 5 of them

yours Anna J

Re: Has anyone managed to get one registered without paperwork?

Posted by Neil Wyatt at December 21. 2017

Good luck with the Cats, Anna.  I have a big fish called Oscar!

There is a limit to having fun looking for parts, gets to the point where it's not funny any more. I have an ES2 in a 650 frame and that got an age related number.

Actually, I want to see if I can have the registration number from my fathers Morris Oxford on the famous 57 Model 50, since I can't see it used. I just hope they don't demand a fortune. (If they allow it) Both 50's vehicles.

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