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Sealed 6v battery

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Sealed 6v battery

Posted by George Arber at November 25. 2018

My 1956 Dominator currently has a wet 6v battery installed. Any recommendations for a sealed battery which I think will be a safer bet in the event of a spill ?

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by ian_soady at November 25. 2018

I just use alarm type batteries like these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/sealed-lead-acid-battery-12v-7-0ah/38315 or 6v equivalent.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Richard Tool at November 25. 2018

Previously ian_soady wrote:

I just use alarm type batteries like these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/sealed-lead-acid-battery-12v-7-0ah/38315 or 6v equivalent.

I agree - I have had one of these type batteries in a dummy case in my ES 2 for several years with never an issue

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by robert_tuck at November 26. 2018

I think you have been a bit lucky, they are not really up to the task and the terminals are weak compared to a proper battery.  If one lets go just as you are overtaking a string of HGV's on the motorway at night  with an innatentive  texting car up your rear, you will find it exciting.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Gordon Johnston at November 26. 2018

Burlen (amongst others) do a 6V sealed battery. I have used these for a number of years successfully. However, as Robert so rightly pointed out, the Lucar terminals on these solid-state batteries are nothing like as good as those on conventional lead/acid batteries. I could add to Robert's cautionary tale with my own experiences. Make sure the terminals are solidly on - a blob of solder can help.

Burlen's one is £26 + VAT.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by richard_hudson1 at November 26. 2018

Previously Gordon Johnston wrote:

Burlen (amongst others) do a 6V sealed battery. I have used these for a number of years successfully. However, as Robert so rightly pointed out, the Lucar terminals on these solid-state batteries are nothing like as good as those on conventional lead/acid batteries. I could add to Robert's cautionary tale with my own experiences. Make sure the terminals are solidly on - a blob of solder can help.

Burlen's one is £26 + VAT.


Plus a good dollop of silicone sealant over each terminal and the beginning of each cable to reduce the risk of metal fatigue in the terminal and cable.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by anthony_bolton at November 27. 2018

Previously George Arber wrote:

My 1956 Dominator currently has a wet 6v battery installed. Any recommendations for a sealed battery which I think will be a safer bet in the event of a spill ?

Dear George,

I have had a 6V sealed battery on my Inter for over six years - Toolstation Part No 94217 albeit installed in a hollowed-out Exide case. Cost c£9.

I have also installed them in my ES2 and 650SS, albeit 12V - Toolstation Part No 29879, cost c£10.

I crimped up the spade terminals on the wires to make sure they didn't vibrate free from the battery. Check carefully the dimensions of the battery in the Toolstation catalogue just to make sure it will fit into your particular battery box.

I ride only during the day but with my lights on. I don't ride out in the dark so some circumspection may be needed (battery-wise) if you ride at night. On a negative note the Altette horn on my Inter does let out a rather pathetic squeak.

Regards.

Peter Bolton

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Dan Field at November 27. 2018

You should read Al Oz’s comments about alarm type batteries. I don’t ever record having a problem with lead acid batteries, and I used to fall off a lot! but you can get gel or mat ones which are excellent - I can certainly recommend the motobatt battery.

Dan

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by George Arber at November 27. 2018

Thanks to all for your constructive comments.

George

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Alan Osborn at November 28. 2018

Nowhere in the above battery debacle has anyone considered the charging conditions, this is the real achilles heal of these 'alarm' sealed batteries. The traditional switched alternator output that we have on a 6V Lucas (even Wipac on the lightweight) can easily over voltage/charge Burlens and the sealed alarm batteries. Short runs with lights on you will survive, long run 50 miles or more with out proper regulation or lights on and you will dry the battery out, be aware. If you use a dynamo (lower output) and perhaps a decent electronic regulator, if you keep your lights on (helps reduce the charge rate) and your journeys short you will 'get away with it'

If you look at the real specification of these sealed batteries via their real number you can find a charge rate that they are not to be over done by. It can be sobering.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Gordon Johnston at November 29. 2018

I take it a proper AO Services voltage regulator would solve the potential overcharging problem. The problem with lead acid batteries is getting them if you live out in the sticks now that you can't get battery acid. Suppliers will still send gel type batteries ready filled with acid but no chance for old fashioned ones. If I want a proper battery, I am faced with a 60 mile round trip and no guarantee that one will be in stock.

My last Burlen cyclon battery lasted about 10 years.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Barry Carson at November 29. 2018

on the old bikes makes you wonder if the charging systems output is to coarse not smoothed out enough to give a clean output to suit modern regulators and batterys. wonder if you could fit an isolating transformer to the alternator/dynamo output. the other side of which has the regulator, smoothing capacitors ect to charge the battery so its not directly connected to the dynamo , alternator output.

 

Barry

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by David Cooper at November 29. 2018

I'm using Screwfix (alarm) batteries in my 16H.  Only done about 1500 miles so far but no problems.  I bought a pair of 6 volt batteries (just in case I went for 12 volts - but I've been put off that) and I use them in parallel to give 6 volts with an AO regulator.  I do crimp the terminals quite tight, and pack the box with foam (offcuts from an old camping mat) to stop them bouncing about in the T-shaped battery box.  No problems so far - not that it matters all that much with a mag except at night.  Using LED lights (although no matter how I adjust it, the headlight beam is crude).

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Alan Osborn at November 29. 2018

Previously Barry Carson wrote:

on the old bikes makes you wonder if the charging systems output is to coarse not smoothed out enough to give a clean output to suit modern regulators and batterys. wonder if you could fit an isolating transformer to the alternator/dynamo output. the other side of which has the regulator, smoothing capacitors ect to charge the battery so its not directly connected to the dynamo , alternator output.

 

Barry

Unfortunately Barry your ideas on 'charging systems' is a bit Awry. There is certainly no isolating transformers. We must deal with each way of generating electricity to charge the vehicle battery individually. First we have Dynamos, they generate DC (which is exactly what we want to charge a battery) but to do this we must have a magnetic Field to surround the armateur which is arranged with the brushes to give us our output. To control this output at a)the right (not too high) voltage for our battery b) ensure the current into the battery and the bikes electrics is kept under control we have a regulator to control the Field on the dynamo. The older regulators where electro mechanical, adjustable points etc and after some years (and cheap foreign production) they become unreliable. So we have now turned to reliable electronic ones (provided they are properly made) so the Dynamo output is under control for the battery on our motorcycle.

Next we have alternators (first fitted in the late 1950s) BUT the AC they generate has to be RECTIFIED before it can be used to charge the battery. First we had SELENIUM rectifiers, very leaky and prone to failing. Next we had SILICON rectifiers, early 60s onward (the small black fined ones) and now we have the ENCAPSULATED rectifiers which are virtually indestructible. But the REGULATION of such an alternator system is another thing. The 6V alternator systems we had from the late 50s had poor regulation, as it was done by switching in and out sets of alternator coils to suit the (headlamp) load. It worked, but from time to time the lead acid battery could get a bit overcharged and gas a bit. 12V came on the horizon, we now stopped our overcharging (always the biggest problem with regarding battery usage/life etc) by the use of the Lucas Zener Diode. Although in most cases this was adequate, there has been moments of too high or too low a zener voltage hence battery voltage too high or low, again battery life becomes shortened but overall the flooded acid battery tends to cope.

So we now come to modern 'fussy' batteries, these must have better voltage (charge) control which is done by alternator regulator/rectifiers (modern tricky voltage control devices). So electronic regulators can control our dynamos and also regulator/rectifier controls our alternators. BUT they are two completely separate systems. The third system that we don't see on our traditional Nortons is of course the alternator with an excited Field a bit like the dynamo and the alternator combined, usually fitted to all our cars and trucks to say nothing of modern Japanese motorcycles. But not for hear.

Re: Sealed 6v battery

Posted by Barry Carson at November 30. 2018

thanks for the info Alan, the workings of the charging system is more complicated than it seems. i understand a little on electrics. little being the operative word. mind you on all things electrical my only claim to fame was i built a weather satellite receiver and later a synthesizer in kit form some moons ago and both worked ok.

 smiley 

     Barry

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