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Oil tank connections

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Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 27. 2018

As I have not yet invested in a thread measurer (correct expression?) could anyone tell me the thread pitch/size on the boss outlet for the oil tank on a  '55 ES2?

Many thanks for any help.

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Ian MacDougall at October 27. 2018

Hi George, I think that should be thread gauge. For '56 the oil tank oulet boss is 1" 20tpi. Looking at thread tables the only match I can see for this size is Cycle which offers 2 pitches for 1" diameter, 20 & 26.

Cheers, Ian McD

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 27. 2018

I haven't rushed out to check Ian but I'm sure the boss on the tank is more like 1/4". I think you may be thing of the whole unit. I'm after the little boss dimension.

 

Cheers

 

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Ian MacDougall at October 27. 2018

The dimension given is for the oil feed connection (the larger/outermost of the two, with the mesh filter) on a '56 tank. I think your '55 tank is a different shape but I was assuming the connections are the same size. I could have that wrong.

Cheers, Ian McD

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 27. 2018

No - I'm sure your right Ian.  But as far as I remember the "oil tank adaptor" is the whole unit with - as you say -a 1" connection, but it has a small spigot on it with a male thread into which the adaptor from the oil line connects. It's this small connector that I need to know the size of) apols for the English!!)

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by richard_cornish at October 27. 2018

Hi George,

   The thread on the oil filter outlet/pipe connection is 1/4" BSP. As you may know the 1/4" refers to the nominal bore size, not the actual diameter of the thread. This is the same size as the petrol taps and breather pipes on the drive side crankcase and the oil tank, also the oil tank return pipe. BSP fittings are still current and widely used, particularly on compressed air fittings, so should be easy to get in a selection of connections. Are you thinking of fitting a tap to this outlet?

Regards,  Richard.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 27. 2018

Well done Richard. That ties up with what I thought, but wasn't sure. yes. I'm idly playing with the idea of fitting a tap or - if possible - fitting a quick action drain cock to the sump plug?

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Ian MacDougall at October 27. 2018

I hadn't realised that the spigot could be separated from the adaptor. Still learning!

Ian McD

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by richard_cornish at October 28. 2018

Previously Ian MacDougall wrote:

I hadn't realised that the spigot could be separated from the adaptor. Still learning!

Ian McD


Hi Ian,

   I guess you already know this part is all one piece, the descriptive wording doesn't always convey what we want to say!! Although having said that it would be possible to cut off the pipe fitting flush and cut a female thread so an oil tap could be screwed directly into it. You won't get many threads in the thickness, so it will need to be securely soldered together.

George,

   An oil tap could catch you out if you don't have a fail-safe reminder, but a quick action drain-cock sounds like an accident waiting to happen??

Richard.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by les croston at October 28. 2018

Previously richard_cornish wrote:

Previously Ian MacDougall wrote:

I hadn't realised that the spigot could be separated from the adaptor. Still learning!

Ian McD


Hi Ian,

I guess you already know this part is all one piece, the descriptive wording doesn't always convey what we want to say!! Although having said that it would be possible to cut off the pipe fitting flush and cut a female thread so an oil tap could be screwed directly into it. You won't get many threads in the thickness, so it will need to be securely soldered together.

George,

An oil tap could catch you out if you don't have a fail-safe reminder, but a quick action drain-cock sounds like an accident waiting to happen??

Richard.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by les croston at October 28. 2018

hi george/ian,have a look at kingpin components,they have a new tap,1/4 and 3/8 bsp connections, with a wire which connects to the magneto cut out,the bike wont start with the tap closed,

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 28. 2018

Thanks Les, I'll follow that up. Apols to Ian McD, it's my lack of descriptive power. I was trying to find what thread/size was needed to screw onto the small male boss on the outlet side of the larger composite connector that screws into the base of the oil tank, which Ian correctly noted is 1''. I now know the answer is 1/4" I can start sourcing some cut off taps although it's by no means certain I'll go down that route. Just fed up having to drain the sump every time I want to use the bike. I've currently left it with the drain plug out and a jug underneath. Just pour it back in, fit the plug then tog up and away!

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by christopher_shepperd at October 28. 2018

Hi George.  people seem to make a lot of fuss about this sumping business.  I just start the bike ('57 ES2) and it starts and runs fine.  Yes, the oil tank level does fall a bit after a couple of weeks but it soon pumps back up and I notice no ill effects resulting from starting on a partially filled sump.  The worst I have seen was after the snow last winter when I had left it for about 6 weeks but even then I only noticed a bit of exhaust smoke on starting which soon cleared.

One possible point is that the vendor told me that a Morgo oil pump was fitted.  I don't know if that makes any difference but it could be a factor.

Cheers...........Chris

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 28. 2018

I would say it was a major factor, Chris. The Norton oil pump is the bête noir when it comes to wet sumping. I was away for one week and then drained 500ml - about 1 pint - out of the sump. Presumably if left it two or three weeks the entire contents of the oil tank would end up in the sump!

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by richard_payne at October 28. 2018

A nice new steel-bodied (as per the twins - no more distorting monkey-metal) oil pump from Andover Norton will solve all of this, without the risks associated with taps or springs.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 28. 2018

The new pump is over £180 Richard against £80 odd for the tap and new mag end cap. I'd have to be convinced that the new pump really did stop wet-sumping at that price.

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 28. 2018

Oops. It's over £200 for the pump - I omitted to add the VAT!

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by David Cooper at October 29. 2018

Fot what its worth.. my Dommie with cast steel pump wet sumps far quicker than my 16H.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Mikael Ridderstad at October 29. 2018

No problem with neither the ES2 nor the 16H. Sump content automatically goes out to the ground.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Gerardo Zamparutto at October 29. 2018

Anteriormente George Phillips escribió:

Ups. Es más de £ 200 para la bomba - omití agregar el IVA!

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Gerardo Zamparutto at October 29. 2018

Después de limpiar varias veces el piso sucio con aceite, más los enojos de mi esposa, logré un cierre perfecto con una electroválvula en mi 16h.

Ver archivo.

Saludos

Attachments

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by George Phillips at October 31. 2018

Probably sound advice!! But my Spanish is limited to asking for a table for two, ordering beer and a small  meal! Can any one translate please?

George

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Gerardo Zamparutto at November 23. 2018

I hope understand me (my english is almost like your Spanish), but think that with the help of the Google translater, we can understand each other.

In my 16h managed to adapt a solenoid valve that when current (12Varrives, produced a displacement of an internal piston that allows the oil to drain to the engine.

When the engined is turned off it cuts off the current and a spring returns the pistonto seal against a rubber ring(o`rings). Can you the picture.

Greetings, Gerardo

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by jonathan_newton at November 23. 2018

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Probably sound advice!! But my Spanish is limited to asking for a table for two, ordering beer and a small  meal! Can any one translate please?

George

George;little tip:  If you have google translate on a smart phone, select the language thent press the camera icon on the phone.  Look at the screen via your phone and it will translate directly. I use and IPhone but sure it works on most others. 

Cheers

Jon

 

PS: you can do the same with a Menu wink

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by ian_soady at November 23. 2018
Previously Gerardo Zamparutto wrote:

I hope understand me (my english is almost like your Spanish), but think that with the help of the Google translater, we can understand each other.

In my 16h managed to adapt a solenoid valve that when current (12Varrives, produced a displacement of an internal piston that allows the oil to drain to the engine.

When the engined is turned off it cuts off the current and a spring returns the pistonto seal against a rubber ring(o`rings). Can you the picture.

Greetings, Gerardo

I'd be worried that if the dynamo wasn't charging it would fail closed. Our bikes aren't famous for reliable electrical systems.........

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by David Cooper at November 23. 2018

I wonder where the power comes from, Gerardo.  You must rely on the voltage from the dynamo.  But then what?  Does the solenoid draw power all the time, or does it use a latching relay?  If it uses a relay, then how do you switch it off again?  And as Ian says - isn't is taking a big risk?  There are lots of stories on this message board about engines being damaged through not opening the valve, but are there any stories about damage caused by wet sumping?

 

Is there a way to arrange a cut out earth wire on a magneto for the singles - like the one on the twins?  If so, it would be fairly simple to have a switch connected to the tap, so it closes to earth the magneto when the valve is closed.

ps I paste your Spanish straight into Google.

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by michael_sullivan at November 23. 2018

Gerrardo:

Where did you purchase the solenoid oil valve?

Manufacturer's part number?

Mike

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Gerardo Zamparutto at November 27. 2018

Previously michael_sullivan wrote:

Gerrardo:

Where did you purchase the solenoid oil valve?

Manufacturer's part number?

Mike

Re: Oil tank connections

Posted by Gerardo Zamparutto at November 27. 2018

Dear Michael:

It is a valve used for the passage of fuel ( in truck engines, I think Cummins). you can get it in your country, I think.

Attention, it took me several hours of work to adapt  it, due to the little space, see the photo(magneto-jpg 578,1kb), analyze very well before buying it, they are for "12 V" .(My Norton has a theold MagDYno), which is 12V and 60W (at 1000 RPM it produces 35 W). Al its lights are led.

You must also use 20 W 50, multi- regulated oil, for better circulation.

Greetings, at your disposal.

Gerardo (disculpas por mi mal  Inglés)

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