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My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

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My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Grant MacNeill at November 22. 2017

Re: banjo for the oil supply at the Rocker box

After reading a comment by Andy Marks about proper sealing of the washers to the banjo bolt…I took a closer look and realized mine is a home-made banjo. It is thicker than the proper one and when fitted with the correct washers the supply hole will be blocked.

I can grind it down to the correct thickness by hand.  Or swap it with the good one from the other end of the oil line, at the tank. But would prefer to find the correct part.

Attached are photos of the correct banjo which is currently at my oil tank end of the supply line.

I have the old part number;  E3/699.  This is for the entire pipe with the banjo connections at each end.  The parts listing does not list the banjo alone.

Nobody seems to carry this part.   Plenty of new and used Commando oil supply banjos but they are far smaller.  The ES2 banjo is larger; roughly the size of the AMAL petrol banjo.

If anybody can suggest a source for a new or used banjo please advise

O.D. is      22.35 mm or 7/8"

I.D. is        14.3 mm or  9/16"  (approx)

thickness                 9.6 mm or   3/8"

Thanks again,

Grant MacNeill,  Toronto

Attachments

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by robert_tuck at November 22. 2017

If you can not get a new one you may have to drill out the banjo or bolt to make a thro way,  They usually leak because the two faces are not flat or parallel to each other, I sometimes use a smear of rtv on the parts.

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Dan Field at November 22. 2017

Not sure if you know that the washers need to be tight against the shaft of the banjo bolt, otherwise the oil goes straight through missing out the holes! I was thinking of trying some rings but never got around to it!

Dan

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Grant MacNeill at November 23. 2017

Thanks Dan.  I see that now. I've got copper washers that fit the banjo bolt well so the small holes will truly meter how much oil is getting through.

my problem is that somebody made up their one banjo ...right diameter but too tall and the exit hole is blocked by the washer

really hunting for another correct banjo at the moment...if you have any ideas ?

Regards

Grant

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by robert_tuck at November 23. 2017

Solder up the hole and drill another one?.

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Dan Field at November 23. 2017

Yes that would work

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Grant MacNeill at November 24. 2017

Long story short...my buddy has turned a correctly sized one out of a chunk of brass so I'm OK

That said, if anybody out there has a lead on an original banjo,  please advise

thanks

Grant

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Andy Marks at November 24. 2017

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Grant MacNeill at November 25. 2017

Thanks Andy

My 1951 banjo bolt is perfect...it is the banjo that I need.   decades ago a guy made one up by stacking two bushings, soldering them together and drilling a hole for the feed tube.

very funky but sort of worked.   can't find another actual banjo but still looking

In the mean time I have a beautifully crafted aluminum one that my buddy turned for me which will do nicely for now

it was your comment about the washers needing to match the diameter of the bolt that made me notice the hole was almost entirely blocked.   all is well now

still looking for a correct banjo though...

Grant

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Neil Wyatt at November 25. 2017

Yet another example of 50's singles not being catered for. These banjo's have not been available for decades and what has been done about it?

Hate to say it but I have long been thinking that 50's singles owners would be better off with their own club. That said there are a lot of early Dommie parts not available also such as rear mudguards, 99 barrels and headlamp shells.

These deficiencies were identified years ago and yet there does not even appear to be a plan or communication on how we move forward!

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Barry Carson at November 25. 2017
sold me 99 project. i couldnt be bothered waiting for some barrels to appear.

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Skip Brolund at November 29. 2017
I bought my 99 barrel from the club spares dept., had them shipped to the USA. Great guys the spares team, unsung heros in my book! I also bought a brand new rear mudguard for my '57 M77 through the club, as they were making new ones. The responsibility of having parts made falls on all of us, not one or two volunteers in the spares scheme. How much time have you volunteered to the club? Perhaps if you need a specific part that is no longer available, you could talk to someone that has that item, find a shop that would consider quoting a price on it & present that to the club. Lets make some effort here guys, too easy to sit on our duffs & complain about it, make something happen. We have some very intelligent people in this club. Also keep in mind, some items, like barrells will be very, very expensive to tool up & make. Are you willing to pay the price????

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Grant MacNeill at December 06. 2017

Previously Skip Brolund wrote:

I bought my 99 barrel from the club spares dept., had them shipped to the USA. Great guys the spares team, unsung heros in my book! I also bought a brand new rear mudguard for my '57 M77 through the club, as they were making new ones. The responsibility of having parts made falls on all of us, not one or two volunteers in the spares scheme. How much time have you volunteered to the club? Perhaps if you need a specific part that is no longer available, you could talk to someone that has that item, find a shop that would consider quoting a price on it & present that to the club. Lets make some effort here guys, too easy to sit on our duffs & complain about it, make something happen. We have some very intelligent people in this club. Also keep in mind, some items, like barrells will be very, very expensive to tool up & make. Are you willing to pay the price????


Hey Skip, how are things? I'm with you...valid points!! The NOC spares team are heroes indeed ! My experiences with the NOC for Norton Singles has been 100% positive.          The resources for restoring old Nortons are good: On my current project I've used the following sources: the NOC Spares parts orders, the NOC Shop: gearbox and engine rebuild DVDs...plus people like Roger at RMC, Andover Norton, BMH Trading, RacingNorton.co, Kingpin Components and the Norton Sage: Mike Pemberton. All helpful with parts and advice.

That said, one does have to sit down with the parts book and really struggle to nail down parts numbers, most of which are obsolete. Norvil parts number converter chart is a big help. ( I would give Norvil more business if they had a more modern, searchable site) For less specialized stuff, Waldridge Motors and British Cycle Supply in Canada have been parts suppliers too.

No doubt there are many Norton parts that no longer exist like the oil supply banjo I've been seeking. But...perhaps I'm the only guy looking for a banjo as they don't "wear out". I've had one made.

Granted, it would be interesting seeking out ways to reproduce parts. If there was a NOC page specifically for needed parts perhaps people like us could contribute. Concerned Norton owners like us could get a better sense of what is missing and what is needed. Roger at RGM seems to be a big motivator in manufacture of essential reproduction parts like sprockets and rear drums. I've read critical reports of Indian tanks but I've gotten 4 Indian tanks that actually worked out great for me...you have one of my spare tanks if I recall correctly ? For best results I find you have to email and communicate directly with the Indian supplier...this offer of respect results in better customer service and attention to detail.

NOC members who grumble don't realize how good we have it !! Other than the U.S. Vintage BMW Owners Club, I have not found anything comparable to the NOC members forum in the vintage on-line bike scene. The NOC members Technical forum directed specifically to Singles is a godsend. Easy to search and post questions. Members promptly provide thoughtful and useful answers. No doubt it is easier for Commando owners than for ES2, Model 18, Manx and sidevalve guys but with a  bit of searching on line, I've managed to get everything sorted for a 66 year old ES2... which is pretty remarkable. How we managed before the internet I can't imagine. (grin)

All the best Skip. When you next visit Toronto in the spring, borrow my ES2 for the day...it is always "on" eh.

Grant in Toronto

Re: My 1951 ES2 had the banjo Blues

Posted by Barry Carson at December 06. 2017

i dont know why i chose to go down the Norton route i should have got a triumph or a Ural you can get barrels for those.  smiley

anyway  its only a motorbike at the end of the day not worth worrying about. mind you i havent got to its gone

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