Navigation

You are here: Home / Messages / Singles / Found something

Found something

Up to Singles

Found this old girl

Posted by simon_oneill at October 06. 2018
Hi all just been over to my late father in laws place to try and his old bike he told me about it years ago but I wasn't sure what it was other than a Norton. Well i'v found it I hope someone out there will be able to identify it
Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 06. 2018

Not my area of expertise, but I would say late 1920s model 18 ohv sports bike,very desirable and valuble  ,look around for the magneto that may have been put somewhere warm and dry. You lucky devil.

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 06. 2018

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Not my area of expertise, but I would say late 1920s model 18 ohv sports bike,very desirable and valuble  ,look around for the magneto that may have been put somewhere warm and dry. You lucky devil.

I'm sorry about the quality of the photos but it's under a load of junk right at the back of one of his barns I have a few more pics but they are to big to upload it looks like it's all there it's still got the tax disc on from 1955 so it's been in there under a cover since then. it's going to be a monumental task to get it out.

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 06. 2018

Check very carefully for detached or spare parts as they will be unobtainable and have to be made if missing. Do not wash it. Do not throw anything away as useless parts will be needed as patterns for making new.Look for  the magneto  and its drive parts,Look for any paperwork and old riding clothes. Do the lottery, how can you be this lucky??. PS the forward mounted mag may be just out of picture. 1927?.

Re: Found something

Posted by richard_tool at October 06. 2018

Previously simon_oneill

it's going to be a monumental task to get it out.

I'm sure there are many who will be willing to help - I'm across the pond but I'll start swimming now

😍😍 - Oh you lucky man !

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 06. 2018

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Check very carefully for detached or spare parts as they will be unobtainable and have to be made if missing. Do not wash it. Do not throw anything away as useless parts will be needed as patterns for making new.Look for  the magneto  and its drive parts,Look for any paperwork and old riding clothes. Do the lottery, how can you be this lucky??. PS the forward mounted mag may be just out of picture. 1927?.

Is the mag infront of the engine on the right hand side just above the dynamo if so it's there knowing my father in law it will be all there but I doubt there will be any spares

Re: Found something

Posted by david_cooper at October 06. 2018

You lucky chap!

As Robert says, it's a valuable machine.  Don't let it go cheap (unless you sell it to me!)

Preserve as much as you can.  Take DOZENS of photos, so if you take it apart you know exactly what goes where - all those awkward things like spacers, wiring clips, which type of fastener goes where, cable runs etc etc.

Remember don't throw any of it away.  Original tinware is highly prized even if it isn't as smooth as modern replacements.  Details like original grease nipples, the saddle cover...  If you get a new cover, make sure you hang on the old one...if you fit new parts then hang on the old ones - As Robert says, they'll be useful as patterns but also a new buyer might want to put them back.

Original finish is highly prized by many but of course that's your call!

I thought at first it has a flat tank, but it looks like a saddle tank.  (Flat tankers get higher prices but there aren't enough of any 1920's singles to go round).  With the alloy primary chain cover that suggests 1929.  Assuming it is 500cc (stamped 79x100 on the left of the crank case) then with open valve springs and one exhaust pipe it is a Model 18.

The magneto should be out of shot fixed in front of the engine.  Behind a rain cover (preferably alloy).

 

If it has any paperwork, so much the better.  You might get the original number back.

If you want someone to take it off your hands, don't let it go to quickly - unless you want to let me have it!

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 06. 2018

Hi David, I've restored a couple of bikes a 1949 BSA C11 and dominator 88 that's not quite finished. I really want to keep this as original as possible without any polishing or painting I just hope that it's not to far gone. And there is no way the other half will let me sell it. I guess the logbook has got to be on the farm somewhere because he never threw anything away but that means there is about 90 year worth of junk and paperwork. Hopefully we are going to try and get it out next weekend, post some more pics when I get home. And will definitely be asking lots of questions. I'll open another conversation and try post the rest of the pics from today. Thanks for all your advise

Re: Found something

Posted by alan_elstob at October 06. 2018

1929 ohv - suggest you take a look ar vintagenorton.com - will have all the info you need.

Rgds

Alan

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 08. 2018
Hi I'v been taking a closer look at the few photos I'v got, It looks like what i thought was the mag looks more like a battery with the dynamo  would this be original or a later modification ,it looks simular to this one and I'm wondering if mag has been done away with
Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 08. 2018

managed to resize this one, but then again there is a cable coming from the bottom off what looks like a dynamo could this be a manual advance and retard cable for the mag?Innocent

 

or should i just wait till i get it home to find out Sealed

Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by richard_cornish at October 08. 2018

Hi Simon,

   It looks like the original mag has been replaced by a later Lucas mag/dyno from the 1940s/50s. I think the cable you can see is the advance and retard cable coming from the mag. As regards the year of the bike, this type of petrol tank was used on the Model 18 from late 1928 to the end of 1930 and all the Model 18s of this age had their magnetos at the front. You can get a full factory record from the singles records officer.

Regards,  Richard.

Re: Found something

Posted by ian_richtsteig at October 09. 2018

It's a very desirable ES-2 with the rear 3 stay frame only used on ES-2's & CS-1's. Looks late 1929 but dating officer can confirm this.

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 09. 2018

In the late 20's machines were sold without lighting as a norm. It would appear that someone has taken off the orriginal mag and fitted a magdyno?  . Could this be an even rarer machine, a model 19 from around 1929?.

Re: Found something

Posted by roger_deadman at October 09. 2018

Hi Simon as Ian says an ES2 circa 1929/1930 ,i can see it has later girder forks and front wheel and also a post 1935 gear box both possibley ex wd military items having said that still a very nice bike

Re: Found something

Posted by david_cooper at October 09. 2018

The ES2 mag should be behind the engine. So if that is the mag then presumably it's an 18.

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 09. 2018

Or a 19!!, Been looking thro the books, lots of changes at that time.I think the primary case might help date it. We need more photos plus engine numbers.

Re: Found something

Posted by david_cooper at October 10. 2018

From the brochures it looks like the saddle tanks arrived in 1928 (I thought it was 1929...) but they still had the black enamelled chain cases as for the earlier 1920's.  In 1929 they gained the nice looking alloy case, with a black disc over the clutch.  Then in 1930 if the brochures are to be believed the clutch cover part of the case went to alloy?

 

ES2 chain case had a weird rising camel's hump to go over the end of the magneto.  So it's not an ES2.

Was the Atlas the first Norton that actually spelled out to the world in letters what model it is?

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 10. 2018

I'm still rooting for a model 19, But I'm only a Dommy man.

Re: Found something

Posted by philip_hannam at October 10. 2018

.....and the winning prize goes to .........my money is going on the attached picture. So I may have to split my winnings with Ian.  There is a left side exhaust, front mounted dynamo and the hint of an alloy primary cover.

Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 10. 2018

Don't think so, if you look closely there is a timing side mag drive cast alloy chaincase going forward. Same as pictured in Sheldons EMU. Could be 588 cc, two models 1 sports ,1 sidecar.  I guess if Simon finds the paperwork we will know.

Re: Found something

Posted by ian_macdougall at October 10. 2018

Shouldn't need the paperwork, at least not for id purposes. Bore and stroke should be stamped on the crankcases? That should sort out the 499(ES2/18) or 588(19) question.

Ian McD

Re: Found something

Posted by richard_cornish at October 10. 2018

Hi all,

   I think a lot of posts in this thread are at cross purposes. The picture of the 3 stay ES2 is not the same machine as the one Simon has unearthed and belongs to a collector who lives in Berkshire and the photo was taken at Brooklands Museum about 5 years ago.

   Simon's bike is almost certainly a diamond (2 stay) frame Model 18 as the engine doesn't look tall enough for a Model 19 as this is about 1.5" taller and many had the 4 speed cross-over gearbox. No cradle frame bikes ever left the factory with front mags as the down tube is too close to the front wheel.

Regards, Richard.

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 11. 2018

After spending far too much time (beginning of unhealthy expensive obsession)looking at pictures of devastatingly beautiful old bikes I have concluded that my first (uninformed) guess was right its a 1929 model 18,  Just thinking about  riding such a creation has got me looking at my finances and frowns from the wife.  I agree with you Richard.

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 15. 2018

Previously richard_cornish wrote:

Hi all,

I think a lot of posts in this thread are at cross purposes. The picture of the 3 stay ES2 is not the same machine as the one Simon has unearthed and belongs to a collector who lives in Berkshire and the photo was taken at Brooklands Museum about 5 years ago.

Simon's bike is almost certainly a diamond (2 stay) frame Model 18 as the engine doesn't look tall enough for a Model 19 as this is about 1.5" taller and many had the 4 speed cross-over gearbox. No cradle frame bikes ever left the factory with front mags as the down tube is too close to the front wheel.

Regards, Richard.

I've got her back home now

Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 15. 2018

The bike is much more complete than it looked in the first shots.  A time machine.

Re: Found something

Posted by robert_tuck at October 15. 2018

Perfect,  You are going to have to do something about the drive though,  No patina,  A little work with a pickaxe and some oil stains will soon sort that. A bit of artfully stiched potato sacking for seat covering ,some air in the tyres ,a rub with an oily rag , fresh oil and petrol  and you have it all. The local blacksmith can sort out the footrest.

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 15. 2018

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Perfect,  You are going to have to do something about the drive though,  No patina,  A little work with a pickaxe and some oil stains will soon sort that. A bit of artfully stiched potato sacking for seat covering ,some air in the tyres ,a rub with an oily rag , fresh oil and petrol  and you have it all. The local blacksmith can sort out the footrest.

You don't know how close you to the  truth that is exactly what hubert my father in law would have done, it was a case of mend and make do back then. But the other half had a look of dread when she looked at her seat on the back..

Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by simon_oneill at October 15. 2018

Previously simon_oneill wrote:

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Perfect,  You are going to have to do something about the drive though,  No patina,  A little work with a pickaxe and some oil stains will soon sort that. A bit of artfully stiched potato sacking for seat covering ,some air in the tyres ,a rub with an oily rag , fresh oil and petrol  and you have it all. The local blacksmith can sort out the footrest.

You don't know how close you to the  truth that is exactly what hubert my father in law would have done, it was a case of mend and make do back then. But the other half had a look of dread when she looked at her seat on the back..

It looks like this is the only way I can put more pics on

Attachments

Re: Found something

Posted by david_cooper at October 15. 2018

Looks like you father in law was a resourceful man. Imaginative battery location... and did he fit  a speedo into the top of the tank to the right of the filler?

Powered by Ploneboard
This is Brio Diazo Plone Theme