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Atlas does not handle

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Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 12. 2018

We have 2 slimlines , a 67 Atlas with 19" wheels,flat bars and std size tyres and a 60 99 with std raised bars and craven panniers . The 99  steers like a ballerena ,  the Atlas like a milk float.. It needs wrestling round a corner ,wants to go straight on. I can't find any issues and put it down to weight distribution.  Thinking of cowhorn bars and saddlebags for the Atlas !!, what do you think?, Chaps? , no thats going too far!!.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by ian_cordes at June 12. 2018

Have you checked frame alignment on the Atlas? Assuming the steering head, swinging arm and wheel bearings are all good, wheels running true etc, another possibility is tyres. You say they are std size, but are they the same make and type on each bike? Even if so, one can sometimes have a duff tyre without knowing it. I certainly have had on a car. Just as thought.....

You have mentioned cowhorn bars now; the genie is out of the bottle!Surprised You know what's coming, don't you?Wink

Ian

 

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by colin_mosley at June 12. 2018

It hasn't got "sidecar " stamped on the top and bottom yokes?

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Colin Peterson at June 12. 2018

Might be a silly question but, how old are the tyres? Old tyres are pigs ... Sorry, no, that's an insult to pigs ...

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 12. 2018

Previously Colin Peterson wrote:

Might be a silly question but, how old are the tyres? Old tyres are pigs ... Sorry, no, that's an insult to pigs ...

The tyres arn't old, , the 99 has had a biff up the front ,wondering if the wheelbase is shorter making it a quicker steering plus the bars and panniers putting more weight on the rear??.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Mikael Ridderstad at June 12. 2018

If rear tyre is worn flat in the middle, handling suffers. What  exact tyres and tyre pressure does it have?

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by ian_cordes at June 12. 2018

Robert. A biff up the front (ooh err missus!) would do it I should think! Was it subjected to proper re-alignment after that?

Ian

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 12. 2018

Hi Ian, The 99 that steers wonderfully light was the one that had a "biff up the front" My suspicion is that a shortened wheelbase has improved it ,perhaps the same might help the Atlas!.Another difference is the 99 has roller head bearings.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 12. 2018

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Gordon Johnston at June 12. 2018

To truly knacker handling, an over tight steering damper does the trick. Failing that, over tight or horribly worn head races are worth a try. It takes quite a lot to make a featherbed handle badly, but it can be done.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Barry Carson at June 12. 2018

just make sure bearings are ok. different machine. but the photo shows part of new cup/cone bearings i fitted to my 56 19s steering. after hitting bump in the road steering jammed and i ended up in a ditch. as i found out later balls didnt fit correctly from new.

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 12. 2018

The Atlas head bearings feel ok but they may be orriginals , so well worth a look, I would like to change to taper but this has made dimensional changes on the 99 and the HL brackets are too tight now, probably need a shim in there.As the bearings are unsealed and have no practical way for regular lubrication they should be checked every 5 years at least.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Gordon Johnston at June 13. 2018

I replaced the unsatisfactory taper roller head races with cup and cones. Taper roller are a good idea but weren't good for me.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 13. 2018

Hi Gordon, do you remember what the problem was with tapers?.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at June 13. 2018

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

We have 2 slimlines , a 67 Atlas with 19" wheels,flat bars and std size tyres and a 60 99 with std raised bars and craven panniers . The 99  steers like a ballerena ,  the Atlas like a milk float.. It needs wrestling round a corner ,wants to go straight on. I can't find any issues and put it down to weight distribution.  Thinking of cowhorn bars and saddlebags for the Atlas !!, what do you think?, Chaps? , no thats going too far!!.

 

hello the wheel sizes on a Atlas should be the same as My Manxman 650 19x3.25 front and 18x4.00 rear  and my set of tyres are avon ribbed front and dunlop k70 rear and my Manxman handels very nice even at high speed round corners  and it wears 8inch high rise bars as standard fittings from bracebridge street workshop and your malastic bushes in the swing arm maybe on their way out and my need replacing and there is nothing wrong with high rise bars to 8 inch high just right height and comfortable to ride long distance, after some forty odd years of riding different bikes and with different heights of bars right from clip=ons to 8 inch high rise I know that the 8 inch bars are the best for all round comfort and the Norton manxman 650 is my little treasure as its one of the best Nortons I have ever ridden even at speed at 80 to 110 mph and no vibration the only bit of vibes I get is at 60 and comes though the foot rests, and some Hondas 750s get this to, and Suzuki 550gt I had both bike at one time, the Suzuki was the worst on left hand corners as the main stand stick out and its a bit heavy on it rear end, and the GS1000 was a bit like this as well but I can say the Norton manxman, beats the lot in handling , 10 out of 10, a pleasure to ride yours anna j

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 13. 2018

The Suzuki SV 650 has developed a distinct notchiness in the straight ahead position and that is far younger  than the Atlas so I'm leaning towards a new set of bearings. The Atlas motor has a heavier flywheel than the 99 and that could be part of the  way they feel.I did look into the 19" rear wheel on the Atlas and it is a standard for the UK, Yank bikes has the 18" with wider tyre.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Gordon Johnston at June 13. 2018

The top roller bearing stood proud of the bearing recess letting water in. Not good. I also had great difficulty adjusting it, unlike my experiences of taper rollers in other situations. Much easier to use a sealed ball bearing or cups and cones.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Alan Osborn at June 13. 2018

Previously Gordon Johnston wrote:

To truly knacker handling, an over tight steering damper does the trick. Failing that, over tight or horribly worn head races are worth a try. It takes quite a lot to make a featherbed handle badly, but it can be done.

I truly agree with GJ on this, odd tyres, miss-aligned wheels, shot dampers, even in one case a rear damper that was broken in two! and still the f bed handles completely above board.

It takes quite a lot to make a fbed handle badly.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at June 14. 2018

If I can get the dommy electrical issues sorted (waiting for the New alternator to be replaced) , the Atlas is next to go on the operating table,  compression plate, rings,balance pistons, head races, indicators, and front mudguard, then my  TT bike followed by the van fuel injection, all fitted around a heart and shoulder surgery. Ready for the TT. Phew!!.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at June 15. 2018

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

The Suzuki SV 650 has developed a distinct notchiness in the straight ahead position and that is far younger  than the Atlas so I'm leaning towards a new set of bearings. The Atlas motor has a heavier flywheel than the 99 and that could be part of the  way they feel.I did look into the 19" rear wheel on the Atlas and it is a standard for the UK, Yank bikes has the 18" with wider tyre.

hello yes yank Nortons did so they handle better, try one and a set of new swinging arm bushes from RGM motors try them you find your atlas will fly around corners yours  anna j

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by paul_standeven at Tuesday 00:59

If you want a cheap solution to your notchy steering....

Take a marker pen, and mark the lower races at the forward position. Drive them both out, and refit with the marked line to the side, one left and one right.  The worn portion of both races will be at the side, and unworn sections at the fore-aft line.  Don't forget to re-grease the bearings first.  The bike will steer like new

The notch effect is caused by thousands of micro-adjustment of steering angle, wearing away the races where roller meets the race, and creates an indent.  This is called 'brinelling'

Paul

 

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

The Suzuki SV 650 has developed a distinct notchiness in the straight ahead position and that is far younger  than the Atlas so I'm leaning towards a new set of bearings. The Atlas motor has a heavier flywheel than the 99 and that could be part of the  way they feel.I did look into the 19" rear wheel on the Atlas and it is a standard for the UK, Yank bikes has the 18" with wider tyre.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by Gordon Johnston at Tuesday 06:04

Named after the Brinell hardness test where a small ball bearing is pressed into the metal being tested, leaving an indentation. The Vickers test by contrast presses a small pyramid shaped point into the specimen. Another useless bit of information.

Re: Atlas does not handle

Posted by robert_tuck at Tuesday 09:30

None of your information is useless Gordon.  Due to advancing age we are both likely to be classed as useless however!.   Being an old skinflit Paul,I may try your dodge (bodge).

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