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New 650 Scrambler anyone?

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New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Bob Matthews at November 16. 2017

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by john_hall1 at November 16. 2017

Looks ... modern styling, sorry looks crap to me, now if it was a Woods replica then maybe!

 

 

Cheers

 

 

John H

Attachments

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Julian Wells at November 16. 2017

Name and looks evoke Ducati's budget range: https://scramblerducati.com/en

Not sure that this is a clever move (because I already have a Ducati -- it's an ST2 -- and I'm not interested in their Scrambler range)

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 16. 2017

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/november/norton-650-scrambler-supersport/

 

Or a super-charged version with 175 BHP?

Well if its anything like the Commando  I go buy a new Royal Enfield 650twin  has it will be cheaper and more reliable  sorry to say this as I am a hardened Norton fan for well over 45 years  so this to me is a sad end   Yours   anna J

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by patrick_mullen at November 16. 2017

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/november/norton-650-scrambler-supersport/

 

Or a super-charged version with 175 BHP?

 

175 BHP from 650cc sounds far fetched - that's 269bhp per litre. The Ferrari GTB can only produce 661bhp from a twin turbo 3.9 V8.= 169bhp per litre.

 

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Dan Field at November 17. 2017

Doesn’t do it for me, It needs a longer rear mudguard imho.  I think The Ducati and Triumph are better looking scramblers. Shame, but then I’ll not be buying one so it’s not me they need to please!

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 17. 2017

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/november/norton-650-scrambler-supersport/

 

Or a super-charged version with 175 BHP?

 

175 BHP from 650cc sounds far fetched - that's 269bhp per litre. The Ferrari GTB can only produce 661bhp from a twin turbo 3.9 V8.= 169bhp per litre.

 

Hello I think someone has come up with a load of BS   Norton New 650 looks more like the Kawasaki ER650twin  modern bike As there called But sadly Not for Me  And I think Norton 20 years late with this platform  as they call it  sounds more like a railway station

then a motorcycle concept,    yours  anna j

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by michael_sullivan at November 17. 2017

On the photos of the Scrambler I do not see a provision to mount the whopping big number/license plate.

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by philip_baker at November 17. 2017

Have to confess, as a regular builder of Commandos I ride this (see photo) with huge enjoyment:

Attachments

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Dan Field at November 17. 2017

Got to love the duke!

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Dan Field at November 17. 2017

I ride this with equal enjoyment!

 

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by iain_brown at November 17. 2017

I'll be keen on one if they get the styling sorted, but the short rear end doesn't do it for me on the initial pics.

The HP figures also sound optimistic from here - but 70HP on a small road bike is plenty so i wont be hanging out for the rocketship version.

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by john_hall1 at November 17. 2017

The Duke looks fun, but alas also too modern for my tastes. However, in the 70s there was a very cool looking Lecturer dude at Wigan technical College, who rode a  yellow, Ducati  scrambler, with the glass inspection cover in the head, I think it was a 450 single! I use to park my D10 4 speed bantam next to it!

Then later on I rode a 441 BSA and moved up a little on the cool scale!

 

Cheers

 

John H

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by dave_sheppard at November 18. 2017

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 21. 2017

Previously philip_baker wrote:

Have to confess, as a regular builder of Commandos I ride this (see photo) with huge enjoyment:

 

Hello yes now this Ducati scrambler it a proper bike  and better than anything from Norton I am afraid to say  sad really they are trying but getting their concepts  in the wrong ballpark so to say,

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 21. 2017

Previously dave_sheppard wrote:

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

 

 

hello  do you not mean assembled in the UK  all the parts are made in other countries  the frame is ccm and running components,  the engine will be made in China  not to say China make some very good stuff  like locomotives    yours  anna j

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 21. 2017

Previously Dan Field wrote:

I ride this with equal enjoyment!

 

 

Hello Dan a very good machine I had many Bultaco's  they did do a nice road bike and did race at one time , yours anna j

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 21. 2017

Now here a view of the NEW BSA  From India  This  looks  a neater concept  For New Bike off-roaders   Yours   Anna J

Attachments

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Dan Field at November 21. 2017

That looks ok, but a bit generic. I wonder how much it will be?

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 21. 2017

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Now here a view of the NEW BSA  From India  This  looks  a neater concept  For New Bike off-roaders   Yours   Anna J

 

And More concepts  motorcycle for 2018  from Kawasaki 650 and CCM Concept you may see some resemblance to the New Norton 650 scrambler  concept    yours   anna j

Attachments

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Gordon Johnston at November 21. 2017

The only thing Norton about them is the name - as is the case with new BSAs on their way. They are all modern bikes to modern standards, quite different to the ancient well-past-their-scrap-by-date relics many of us ride. If you are in the market for a new machine, I don't know how much the name on the tank will influence you. At least 961s look like Nortons and are make in the UK.

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Barry Carson at November 21. 2017

the photo of the Norton scrambler looks great. its has been said the styling needs to look right

looking at that view of it the only things to me that stand out are the headlamp looks a bit to small the side panel looks dated. also think it would look better if only the Norton lettering was chrome and not the whole cover on the engine. minor details i know.

anyway see what it looks like at the end of the day.  smiley

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 22. 2017

Previously Gordon Johnston wrote:

The only thing Norton about them is the name - as is the case with new BSAs on their way. They are all modern bikes to modern standards, quite different to the ancient well-past-their-scrap-by-date relics many of us ride. If you are in the market for a new machine, I don't know how much the name on the tank will influence you. At least 961s look like Nortons and are make in the UK.

 

Hello only assembled In the UK  all parts are made in other countries like Italy and Sweden Indian and China the only thing British in the old name of Norton!  there nothing much made in this country anymore!   Even 60163 Tornado Peppercorn A1 class her boiler was made in East Germany at Meiringen locomotive works,  your all luck to own a Bracebridge street workshops  Machine they were the pinnacle of British manufacture!  your anna j

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Alan Osborn at November 22. 2017

A couple words that stand out on this NEW 650 in the write up

'the frame has plates to improve the ridgeness and stiffness' that sounds like a familiar tale, the Electra from 1964 had such plates fitted to make the Francis Barnett frame more rigid and stiffer'!

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by john_hall1 at November 23. 2017

 

There must be Political reasons why we  can't manufacture in total, anything  semi-decent  here any more?

Asset stripping probably started a long time ago and Royal Enfield at Redditch was a victim of it's land values being higher than it's primary production output!  The selling off of industrial assets and land really started to gather pace in the 80s. BSA crashed through leaked reports and this pointed out dramatically how Share-holder concerns can break a Company overnight! Having said that it appears it was dreadfully managed on all accounts and people should have been concerned! And some insiders profited from the break up and selling off of BSA's profitable sectors!

The death of Manufacturing probably started in the 60s, but I think since the Rio Earth Summit when Global Warming, became a Primary concern of the Governments in the West (Germany, perhaps as an exception, modernised and persisted with manufacturing), and  the USA generally ditched their industrial heritage to satisfy perceived Climate demands with regards to CO2 production, then unproven and still  now technically unprovable!

However, this also served as a catalyst for Investors to move abroad and guess what the shift caused a huge rise in profits!

it is my view that machines have a kind of  "soul" from the ethos and component parts that come together to make them and the mental input that designed them and in the construction processes!

Perhaps this is why we find old motorcycles manufactured in our homeland, a little more satisfying and less alien? Because we empathise with them, in that the very atoms and molecules in the machines, have been drawn in the main, (or used to be), from the dust and metals of our Home nation, just like our biological bodies!

In Practice Week @ the TT's, for two nights I walked round the paddocks and stood looking at the Norton machines, there were people around from Japan, Germany, Holland, Manxland and the UK and they, (the Norton Staff), failed to even attempt to have a conversation with anyone, which I thought was a little short-sighted and disappointing!

 

** When I say "soul",it is hard to find words for this concept, I first came across the idea in Far eastern cultures, may be it is more like an "/energy/essence", I later found that this concept was also considered in the West a long time ago when things were made and fashioned by hand, Musical instruments, Harps, Horns, "Oliphant", Song of Roland; Swords/ Bows/daggers in particular are a good examples and many were given Names, "Hrunting", in Beowulf would be a prime example!

Having built a few bikes when you get to the moment whereby the are filled up with oil and fuel and electricity kits in, then it is almost like a birthing procedure, in that the creation once fired up seems in a mechanical  way to exhibit characteristics of a living thing. this concept only works when things are complete and run  as they should be, this essence seems to fade away in unused Museum pieces , until they are brought to "Life" again!

 

Cheers

 

John H

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at November 24. 2017

Previously john_hall1 wrote:

 

There must be Political reasons why we  can't manufacture in total, anything  semi-decent  here any more?

Asset stripping probably started a long time ago and Royal Enfield at Redditch was a victim of it's land values being higher than it's primary production output!  The selling off of industrial assets and land really started to gather pace in the 80s. BSA crashed through leaked reports and this pointed out dramatically how Share-holder concerns can break a Company overnight! Having said that it appears it was dreadfully managed on all accounts and people should have been concerned! And some insiders profited from the break up and selling off of BSA's profitable sectors!

The death of Manufacturing probably started in the 60s, but I think since the Rio Earth Summit when Global Warming, became a Primary concern of the Governments in the West (Germany, perhaps as an exception, modernised and persisted with manufacturing), and  the USA generally ditched their industrial heritage to satisfy perceived Climate demands with regards to CO2 production, then unproven and still  now technically unprovable!

However, this also served as a catalyst for Investors to move abroad and guess what the shift caused a huge rise in profits!

it is my view that machines have a kind of  "soul" from the ethos and component parts that come together to make them and the mental input that designed them and in the construction processes!

Perhaps this is why we find old motorcycles manufactured in our homeland, a little more satisfying and less alien? Because we empathise with them, in that the very atoms and molecules in the machines, have been drawn in the main, (or used to be), from the dust and metals of our Home nation, just like our biological bodies!

In Practice Week @ thr TT's, for two nights I walked round the paddocks and stood looking at the Norton machines there were people around from Japan, Germany, Holland, Manxland and the UK and they, (the Norton Staff), failed to even attempt to have a conversation with anyone, which I thought was a little short-sighted and disappointing!

Cheers

 

John H

 

Hello, John, your long comment are whole so True and paints a very dark picture on the Home manufacturing   well yes it did all start around the mid-1960s like the railways at the time were also suffering  in a big way and so was all manufacturing has history tell us Britain was an up evil   with miners and power station works and the unions,  job were being loosed and the because of the Labour party at this time were weak and run by backward thinking individuals, back then on the railways diesel's were clean and the way forward,  and there was a motorway building progam, And look were this all got us today 50 years on and polictans have lernt  nothing,  and are still backward thinking with an out of date high speed 2 railway ats cost the tax payer  a bomb   where now a trillion or two in debit with every thing else we arether  sink or swim we need a new birth  in manufacturing   with new hight technology  but this new 650 is NOT  new technology  its old tech  new technoly is overunity electric motorcycles,  yes motorcycles that can power them selfs  as there runnig they regenarate  their battery and capasitor power and with new high toque low wattage power induction motors built in side the wheel hub electric is highly efficant and has a very low carbon foot print so new electric motorcycles is the future weather you like them or not!                      yours  anna j, Dixon

Attachments

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by Bob Matthews at November 24. 2017

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

new technoly is overunity electric motorcycles,  yes motorcycles that can power them selfs  as there runnig they regenarate  their battery and capasitor power and with new high toque low wattage power induction motors built in side the wheel hub electric is highly efficant and has a very low carbon foot print so new electric motorcycles is the future weather you like them or not!                      yours  anna j, Dixon

 

I have to disagree!

Electric vehicles cannot power themselves, yes they can use energy recovery instead of braking a la Formula 1 cars, but that only works if you don't ease off the throttle to slow down as most people do.  If using an energy recovery system the power has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the power that has been put in to create acceleration and speed.

Also a myth (I'm surprised at you Anna) is that electric vehicles have a low carbon footprint.  No one talks about the carbon footprint of actually manufacturing a vehicle let alone the carbon footprint of producing battery packs, or the carbon footprint of recycling spent battery packs, or the fact that to produce electricity we still have to burn fossil fuels and then convert it into electricity which we cannot store.  Low local emissions from electric vehicles, yes, but definitely not low carbon footprint.  I love the idea of renewable electricity and it works well as a supplement, but when it's dark and windless we have little alternative but to use fuel fired power stations.  To also believe that electric vehicles are efficient is another myth. Try burning a gallon of petrol in an electric generator then send the produced electrical power to a battery vehicle and see how far it runs.  Then do the same test with an engine that runs directly on petrol and let's see which is the most efficient way of doing things.

The first generation Toyota Prius's are now worth less than £1k and are nearly all in desperate need of new battery packs which will cost the owner about £9k - call that progress and green, I think not.

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by john_hall1 at November 25. 2017

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

new technoly is overunity electric motorcycles,  yes motorcycles that can power them selfs  as there runnig they regenarate  their battery and capasitor power and with new high toque low wattage power induction motors built in side the wheel hub electric is highly efficant and has a very low carbon foot print so new electric motorcycles is the future weather you like them or not!                      yours  anna j, Dixon

 

I have to disagree!

Electric vehicles cannot power themselves, yes they can use energy recovery instead of braking a la Formula 1 cars, but that only works if you don't ease off the throttle to slow down as most people do.  If using an energy recovery system the power has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the power that has been put in to create acceleration and speed.

Also a myth (I'm surprised at you Anna) is that electric vehicles have a low carbon footprint.  No one talks about the carbon footprint of actually manufacturing a vehicle let alone the carbon footprint of producing battery packs, or the carbon footprint of recycling spent battery packs, or the fact that to produce electricity we still have to burn fossil fuels and then convert it into electricity which we cannot store.  Low local emissions from electric vehicles, yes, but definitely not low carbon footprint.  I love the idea of renewable electricity and it works well as a supplement, but when it's dark and windless we have little alternative but to use fuel fired power stations.  To also believe that electric vehicles are efficient is another myth. Try burning a gallon of petrol in an electric generator then send the produced electrical power to a battery vehicle and see how far it runs.  Then do the same test with an engine that runs directly on petrol and let's see which is the most efficient way of doing things.

The first generation Toyota Prius's are now worth less than £1k and are nearly all in desperate need of new battery packs which will cost the owner about £9k - call that progress and green, I think not.

 

I agree I have real misgiving about the whole concept as it stands, not just the manufacturing process and the machines operation, but the fact the struggling national grid may be called on to assist in the charging and in this alone combined with the volatility of Electricity prices it could be a very strenuous ownership experience,

I also feel again it is an example of manipulation and control  in conjunction with a Political will to end Carbon fuel led  vehicles is perhaps a little too hastily engineered in departure.

Clean and Green energy would be great if it only was, I think we are missing something, like a clever intermediary phase, abandoning something when the concept hasn't been refined and proven for cost and distance is a little rash.

The other thing that concerns me is something with a lack of noise used in general for Public transport, are they going to make people dress up in garb, coloured like Ice Lolly's with flashing warning lights on the said  silent electric vehicles?

And then their is the expense of the whole thing!

 

Cheers

 

 

John H

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by David Cooper at November 25. 2017

If the self-styled Greens had embraced nuclear power 40 years ago instead of going into a wild panic after a trivial local problem with an old fashioned plant at Three Mile Island, we would not have anything like the CO2 issues we have now. I blame them entirely for embracing what they call 'emotional intelligence' as a value basis for decision making.

Oddly I see one glimmer of hope with electric vehicles. Storage of power is a well known problem. But with lots of vehicles attached to the Grid, maybe some portion of their battery capacity might be available to be sent back to where it came from at peak periods.

But sorry Anna. The perpetual motion machine can never work outside the world of Harry Potter.

Re: New 650 Scrambler anyone?

Posted by andy_chetwood at November 25. 2017

Well then : Lots of food for thought here , methinks .

Last June when Stanley Woods won his tenth TT race I was overjoyed ........ oops ........... reality check . Things have moved on . Norton purists may do well to remember that Rem Fowlers TT winning bike was half Peugeot . The British industry went downhill because of failure to invest in updates combined with greedy shareholders . Many of us are also greedy . Another American import . Keeping things or conserving (a capital 'c' is shouting at me) is not necessarily a good thing if you keep the bad things and do not welcome innovation . (I think). We choose not to make stuff here because labour is too expensive and the end product would not sell . If the perpetrators of manufacture were less greedy it's possible that manufacture may return to our country . At present we choose to allow the exploitation of third world labour to feed the greed of shareholders . This is further exacerbated by our nativity in fawning to advertising and putting faith in people who tell us lies .

To the point . I think the new 650 is nice . Will it be affordable? Perhaps if Mr Garner cleans his monocle and looks around he may find a market.

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