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More magneto mire

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Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 19. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George

 

 Hello well I have freed up the disc for the fibre gear and it now fits like a glove over the armature shaft, now with paul  wolf  offer his services it now up to you George  How I  now proceed further  is up to you, I can skim the armature steel centers up by filing by hand on the lathe  turning the lathe by hand  and checking with a set of clocking dial gauges   it's in your hands , but even if you get another body does not mean this  armature will fit right you may sill need work doing on it either way, Has I have armature isolation on only 1 quarter of the rotation of the armature  it's catching the sides  inside the body     yours anna j

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 19. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George

 

 Hello well I have freed up the disc for the fibre gear and it now fits like a glove over the armature shaft, now with paul  wolf  offer his services it now up to you George  How I  now proceed further  is up to you, I can skim the armature steel centers up by filing by hand on the lathe  turning the lathe by hand  and checking with a set of clocking dial gauges   it's in your hands , but even if you get another body does not mean this  armature will fit right you may sill need work doing on it either way, Has I have armature isolation on only 1 quarter of the rotation of the armature  it's catching the sides  inside the body  nothing is bent or out of line             yours anna j

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 19. 2017
Hi Anna - if you check your "inbox" on your emails you will see I've dropped you a note rather than open this up to the world. You've certainly highlighted some faults of which I was unaware when I thought it was a simple rebuild. Please email me direct when you've read my own email. Cheers George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 20. 2017
Hi Anna - if you'e having trouble with your emails then by all means contact me in open forum Cheers - George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 20. 2017
Hi Anna - if you'e having trouble with your emails then by all means contact me in open forum Cheers - George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Barry Carson. at March 20. 2017

pity you couldnt have found something like this one at the time George and had it recondition .

http://spacottagecollectables.co.uk/product/lucas-mo1l-motorcycle-magneto/ 

 

Barry

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 21. 2017
Thanks for the link, Barry. That is almost what I did. I bought a secondhand body to replace the cracked one on the bike. Hence my thinking it would be a simple dismantle/reassembly. How wrong I was! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by ian_cordes at March 21. 2017

It may be worth buying that one anyway George. It is not much money, for a back-up/spare?

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 21. 2017
I'll wait till I've got mine back Ian. Don't want to throw good money after bad. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by ian_cordes at March 21. 2017

I know what you mean George. It is easy to accumulate parts that will never be used; I've got a garage-full! Embarassed

Ian

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Barry Carson. at March 21. 2017

its ok George get your other sorted just thought it may help.

the one in the other link isn't the one i was on about for some strange reason its changed, this is the one, i hope 

http://spacottagecollectables.co.uk/product/lucas-mo1l-motorcycle-magneto-3/

 

Barry

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 21. 2017
That's more like it, Barry. I could be tempted by that one. Let's hope my own mag is returned soon and I can then decide on the next step. I'm still hoping to be on the road by Easter! Thanks for your input. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 21. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
That's more like it, Barry. I could be tempted by that one. Let's hope my own mag is returned soon and I can then decide on the next step. I'm still hoping to be on the road by Easter! Thanks for your input. George

 

  HELLO  George   if you like to give me your address So I have somewhere to send it too  but  the armature  is a bit big for the body and is catching inside, So No  isolation and No Spark    but it's now back together and better than I got  it  has the end cover now fits right      my emails go to Bt-yahoo,   and you have to spell my name right or  your email will not get anywhere   you need to put it in like this  all low case     annajeannette@btinternet.com   now after my Member ship runs out I will be changing my email address    yours   anna  j  

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Andy Marks at March 23. 2017

I have just been directed to this topic by someone and although I usually tend to try and stay out of conversations on magnetos, not wanting to look like I'm advertising, I thought I'd chip in this time...

I must confess I'm a little confused as to how we got from a drive end cover that doesn't fit to insulating cups and removing material from the magnet (OUCH!)?

When an armature has been reassembled following a rewind, it should have been checked for running true by running the armature on its bearing tracks – NOT BETWEEN CENTRES – with the clock on the small end of the taper. If it is found to be out, it needs correcting. Yes, an out of true armature is very likely to make contact with the body but removing metal from the o/d of the armature and/or from inside the body to provide clearance is NOT the way to go. It will still be out of true so that needs to be sorted first.

Once it is running true, if it still scrapes the body THEN it will be necessary to remove metal. But take this from the armature, NOT the inside of the body. This can be done as Paul suggests with a light skim, but it might be easier to put some engineer’s blue on the armature, put the mag together and find the high spots. Then just relieve these with a file. You want to remove as little material as possible as the bigger the gap between the body and armature, the less efficient the magneto will be. How you do this will depend on what equipment you have in your home workshop.

As for comments about the armature shorting out with the body and stopping the spark, this is simply wrong. Of course you don’t want any scraping for obvious reasons. But from an electrical point of view you DO need the body and armature to be in contact for a spark to occur. What do you think the earth brush is there for?

There is a great deal about how to make a magneto work properly which is not immediately obvious.  We have quite a few technical pages on our website that you might find of interest: www.themagnetoguys.co.uk . If we can be of any further help please get in touch. Either andy@themagnetoguys.co.uk or 01323 840203. I agree with Paul - this needs to be given to a professional who a) knows what they are doing and b) has the right equipment to be able to be able to do it properly. I suggest when you get the mag back you contact either myself or Paul and go from there.

Hope you get it sorted George.

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 23. 2017
That's good of you, Andy. I've so many offers of help and advice on where to go that someone is going to be disappointed! The mag was working fine before I removed it to change the body (the original was cracked). If the armature is now catching the body I would assume it must be the new body which is at fault as the armature worked fine in the old body. Hopefully Anna will by now have posted it back so I can decide when I see it. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by martin_jones1 at March 24. 2017

Previously Andy Marks wrote:

I have just been directed to this topic by someone and although I usually tend to try and stay out of conversations on magnetos, not wanting to look like I'm advertising, I thought I'd chip in this time...

I must confess I'm a little confused as to how we got from a drive end cover that doesn't fit to insulating cups and removing material from the magnet (OUCH!)?

When an armature has been reassembled following a rewind, it should have been checked for running true by running the armature on its bearing tracks – NOT BETWEEN CENTRES – with the clock on the small end of the taper. If it is found to be out, it needs correcting. Yes, an out of true armature is very likely to make contact with the body but removing metal from the o/d of the armature and/or from inside the body to provide clearance is NOT the way to go. It will still be out of true so that needs to be sorted first.

Once it is running true, if it still scrapes the body THEN it will be necessary to remove metal. But take this from the armature, NOT the inside of the body. This can be done as Paul suggests with a light skim, but it might be easier to put some engineer’s blue on the armature, put the mag together and find the high spots. Then just relieve these with a file. You want to remove as little material as possible as the bigger the gap between the body and armature, the less efficient the magneto will be. How you do this will depend on what equipment you have in your home workshop.

As for comments about the armature shorting out with the body and stopping the spark, this is simply wrong. Of course you don’t want any scraping for obvious reasons. But from an electrical point of view you DO need the body and armature to be in contact for a spark to occur. What do you think the earth brush is there for?

There is a great deal about how to make a magneto work properly which is not immediately obvious.  We have quite a few technical pages on our website that you might find of interest: www.themagnetoguys.co.uk . If we can be of any further help please get in touch. Either andy@themagnetoguys.co.uk or 01323 840203. I agree with Paul - this needs to be given to a professional who a) knows what they are doing and b) has the right equipment to be able to be able to do it properly. I suggest when you get the mag back you contact either myself or Paul and go from there.

Hope you get it sorted George.

Thank goodness Paul and Andy are now on the scene. As for a while I thought the project was going T one TS UP..

Yes.  A light smear of engines blue on the inside bore of the stator. Assemble it  and after a couple of turns the dismantled rotor might have picked up a spot or two of blue. A few light strokes with a smooth flat file is all that is required. Repeat the treatment.

If you think the rotor is running  out.

V  blocks under both journals, then clock it

Regards to both.

Martin Jones

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 24. 2017
You really are a most wonderful set of blokes! What started out n this thread as a rather silly whinge about my inability to out the mag back together has become a full blown discussion on all manner of items. For which of course I'm really grateful. Anna tells e it's on its way back to me and I'm grateful for her offer of freebie help. What I thought was a simple rebuild turned out to be a bit more so I can't blame Anna. When I get it back I'll re-assess all the info and go from there. Watch this space - and thank you! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 24. 2017
Sorry about the typos, guys. It's my birthday. 'nuff said! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by martin_jones1 at March 28. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Sorry about the typos, guys. It's my birthday. 'nuff said! George
Hello George. Regarding your outstanding magneto. Has it been returned to you yet. Why I ask . Is that next weekend I am at Coventry. En route. I pass with 5 miles of AJD. With your instruction I could collect and post it from Coventry or pas it on to a member who lives near to you. Please advse me in plenty of time. Kind regards. Martin Jones Hull

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 28. 2017
That's really kind of you, Martin. To be fair I have had one or two offers like that. You're all a great bunch of guys. Anna said last Thursday that it would be here today. It has not arrived yet but may do so later. I'll keep you posted. Many thanks. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 28. 2017
H Martin - at al Mag has now arrived back. Seems to be all there although I haven't dismantled it. I've found a local Magneto Man - Brian Winter-Baker - so will sound him out as he's only 7 or 8 miles away. Will keep everyone posted just in case the solution to the problem helps someone. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 28. 2017
Previously martin_jones1 wrote:

Previously Andy Marks wrote:

I have just been directed to this topic by someone and although I usually tend to try and stay out of conversations on magnetos, not wanting to look like I'm advertising, I thought I'd chip in this time...

I must confess I'm a little confused as to how we got from a drive end cover that doesn't fit to insulating cups and removing material from the magnet (OUCH!)?

When an armature has been reassembled following a rewind, it should have been checked for running true by running the armature on its bearing tracks – NOT BETWEEN CENTRES – with the clock on the small end of the taper. If it is found to be out, it needs correcting. Yes, an out of true armature is very likely to make contact with the body but removing metal from the o/d of the armature and/or from inside the body to provide clearance is NOT the way to go. It will still be out of true so that needs to be sorted first.

Once it is running true, if it still scrapes the body THEN it will be necessary to remove metal. But take this from the armature, NOT the inside of the body. This can be done as Paul suggests with a light skim, but it might be easier to put some engineer’s blue on the armature, put the mag together and find the high spots. Then just relieve these with a file. You want to remove as little material as possible as the bigger the gap between the body and armature, the less efficient the magneto will be. How you do this will depend on what equipment you have in your home workshop.

As for comments about the armature shorting out with the body and stopping the spark, this is simply wrong. Of course you don’t want any scraping for obvious reasons. But from an electrical point of view you DO need the body and armature to be in contact for a spark to occur. What do you think the earth brush is there for?

There is a great deal about how to make a magneto work properly which is not immediately obvious.  We have quite a few technical pages on our website that you might find of interest: www.themagnetoguys.co.uk . If we can be of any further help please get in touch. Either andy@themagnetoguys.co.uk or 01323 840203. I agree with Paul - this needs to be given to a professional who a) knows what they are doing and b) has the right equipment to be able to be able to do it properly. I suggest when you get the mag back you contact either myself or Paul and go from there.

Hope you get it sorted George.

Thank goodness Paul and Andy are now on the scene. As for a while I thought the project was going T one TS UP..

Yes.  A light smear of engines blue on the inside bore of the stator. Assemble it  and after a couple of turns the dismantled rotor might have picked up a spot or two of blue. A few light strokes with a smooth flat file is all that is required. Repeat the treatment.

If you think the rotor is running  out.

V  blocks under both journals, then clock it

Regards to both.

Martin Jones

 Hello someone its try to tell me how to suck eggs when it comes to engineering I do know what I am doing  I did go to university, And not past it,! And you cannot just put the armature on V bloc's  and clock it!!   Has there is bearings each  end and one end is tapered  so you cannot get an accurate reading , I do have a number of V bloc's  but the best way is in the soft jaws of the Atlas Lathe  this will give you and accurate reading  has the other end of the armature shaft is held by the tail stock,   And I just happened to live on my own  and go out to work all week  and in a lot of pain from arthritic knees  and bladder on the blink So I have had not much of a chance to do much with it  But the body it not one of the best, I do know how to do magneto without some guy trying to tell me, what I already know  about!!  I had not had the chance to set up the Atlas 10-inch lathe to skim off the out of round on the armature  but George will find that the end cover plate now fits right  has it did not when I received it  has the keyways were over large  and the end nut was thread bound  so I filed the threads up with my needle files  this took me 3 hours to do  and get it nice and free running on its threads  and the key way need filling up so the steel end plate fitted right  for the fiber gear, I had the armature in late with my two Mercer  clocking dial gauges on it  fitted to magnetic blocks . I found the armature was out of round by 0.006 thou at one side only just enough to catch when fitted back in the body of the MO1L   since George instructed me to send him in back I have done so. But Given time I would have sorted it and made this mag all work right,  but got interference from others, so get off my case and bother someone else!  I have done nothing wrong to anyone !   yours  Anna J 

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Bob Matthews at March 28. 2017

Anna, it's all well and good you stating the above but if we look to your earlier post, you were going to grind the body out to create clearance for an out of true armature.  So maybe you can understand why certain reservations have been made.

Is a bit of a mess new armature that's out of round by 0.005 thou which is just enough to catch in inside the body and make a contact  shorting out the magneto process,  So the only way I can think of is taking out about 0.005 thou out of the body the magnet fits to one side  and its only magnetised steel I am grinding  out  bit at a time and very carefully to  making measurements in-between times  on my mill drill  I use a fine  set of stones from this process  . has you cannot take anything off the armature you disturbed the windings  inside

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by les_howard at March 29. 2017

Anna's lathe method is perfectly OK. The armature is constructed in 3 separate pieces...Two ends cast in brass with cast in steel bearing spindles  and the laminated steel centre section that the coils are wound on to.

The 3 pieces are located with tiny pins and pulled together with two set screws. It is easy for someone to reassemble them badly and  sometimes different pieces are used if something has been damaged (spindle broken for example). After reassembly, it is often the case that the armature is not perfectly true and runs with a slight wobble, so it is fairly common practice for the complete armature to be set up in a lathe and skimmed, although the clearance to the magnet must not exceed 1 thou ( I think) as the concentration of flux through the armature is  considerably reduced. Anna seems to saying it is just one small part of the magnet that is out and rubbing which is also a possibilty...not sure if she has skimmed the armature yet though?

Les

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by John Shorter at March 30. 2017

Personally, I would only entrust a magneto to a specialist, not to a marine engineer, or self taught "Expert"  Possibly you can get a "Free lunch", but very rarely.

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 30. 2017
My "free lunch" has cost me £29 in postage so far John. I've been given an estimate by my new man of around £40 - £45 so I could be in for £74. Oh the benefit of hindsight! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 30. 2017
Ooops! Nearly forgot. Plus £40 for new bearings, insulating washers, brushes and of course the £25 for the mag body off E-bay. No wonder I had to sell the other bike! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 30. 2017
Previously John Shorter wrote:

Personally, I would only entrust a magneto to a specialist, not to a marine engineer, or self taught "Expert"  Possibly you can get a "Free lunch", but very rarely.

Hello  well the expert will be its owner  he has more engineering  qualifications after his name than me,  So George should be well capable of sorting his own magneto    me I not that well  these days  but try to keep going  and money is very tight  now  only working 25 hours a week and that enough for me to be exhausted,  for the rest of the week, at why I will not be renewing my membership  has I cannot afford it  just yet  I lots to do  and no one to help so there is only me to sort things    But hey you guys  have a nice time this Sunday at your AGM     yours    Anna j

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by eugene_brolund at March 31. 2017

Well Anna, I can help with the money part, I have been emailing you to get an address so I can send you 15GBP for the partsbook coppies, but I have gotten no reply. I have 3 English five Pound notes left from my UK visit last summer, no good to me here, I just need to know where to send it.

 

Skip

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 31. 2017
Previously Skip Brolund wrote:

Well Anna, I can help with the money part, I have been emailing you to get an address so I can send you 15GBP for the partsbook coppies, but I have gotten no reply. I have 3 English five Pound notes left from my UK visit last summer, no good to me here, I just need to know where to send it.

 

Skip

 Hello  Skip  Sorry mate  that you had a hard time getting in contact with me  Now today I will go to Goole library  and have this parts manual copied for you  I live some 7 miles from Goole and with working around here, I only get a chance to get to Goole now and then, its remote countryside  here nothing but farmland and trees  for miles  I will send you my address by Email OK    I just getting old and worn-out  and forgetful  so hang in there you get this part manual in the end      yours    Anna J 
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