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More magneto mire

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More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 07. 2017
Managed finally to get all the parts back into the mag only to find that the driving-end cover will not go on properly. It stops with about a 1/16" gap between the cover and the body. It is prevented from moving any closer by the locking nut. I have had it all apart and re-assembled it but no improvement. I've tried tightening the nut as much as poss but to no avail. The mag is an MLO1. I'm really about to give up on this mag project and take Anna up on her very kind offer but I just hate admitting defeat. Any clues? George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Dan Field at March 07. 2017

None sorry ... I trusted mine to APL mags in Shaftesbury! I don't know if Al Os knows anything about them? Worth a call?

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 07. 2017
Sorry guys - should have said "M01L". George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 07. 2017
I've given up. I'm posting it off to Anna. At least I might have the bike back on the road by summer. I might also find out what I was doing wrong. I'll let you all know for future ref. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by ian_cordes at March 07. 2017

George. Why not take it to the guy at Lanivet? You both can look at it there and then. I am sure he can sort it, and no doubt test it for you at the same time. I don't mean Lanivet Motors; this chap is over the road, and magneto's are what he does. I will dig out his details, but if I can't find them I can take you there if you like.

Fully insured postage both ways is expensive, plus whatever else, and however long it may take.....

Cheers. Ian

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Gordon Johnston at March 07. 2017

George, I take it you have access to a manual? See

britishonly.com/pdf/lucas/sectionL5partB.pdf

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 07. 2017
Thanks Gordon. Yes I have that doc - and part A. And I still got it wrong!

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Skip Brolund at March 08. 2017

Hi George, in a perfect situation we can use Skype, or Facetime & we can fix you up "LIVE" via the interwebs if that is an option for you?

If not, my best guess is that you have not seated the drive plate all the way home. This can be tricky, as the woodruf keys MUST be full seated in their respective keyways first. If you are unsure, put the drive plate on without the keys first & put a mark on the armature shaft with a marker for reference, then remove the drive plate, install keys & then install the drive plate again & see if the hub of the drive plate is located far enough onto the shaft to line up with your reference mark.

Then the five finger spring, tab washer, and nut. do you have the tool for holding the fiber gear from turning when you snug up the nut?

Please let me know how you make out!

Also, what town are you in?

 

All the best,

 

Skip

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 08. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Managed finally to get all the parts back into the mag only to find that the driving-end cover will not go on properly. It stops with about a 1/16" gap between the cover and the body. It is prevented from moving any closer by the locking nut. I have had it all apart and re-assembled it but no improvement. I've tried tightening the nut as much as poss but to no avail. The mag is an MLO1. I'm really about to give up on this mag project and take Anna up on her very kind offer but I just hate admitting defeat. Any clues? George
   
   Hello did you fit the isolating wash over the bear at the drive end  if not you have to strip the mag has it will not work without this wash in place,    yours anna j

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Skip Brolund at March 08. 2017

Hey George,

please allow me to comment what Anna has written.

I assume she means the insulating washer, not isolating washer. It is a paper washer that insulates the outer bearing race from the case. I am sure you have not removed the outer races, so no worries.

If the insulator fails the mag will still work, but if the earth brush were to fail & the the insulator failed at the same time, bearings would arc & become pitted & eventually wear away.

 

Skip

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 09. 2017
Skip - I think you have it in one. The Woodruff keys were practically an interference fit in their grooves so it may well be that the plate was not as far home as it could be. I don't recall removing the contact breaker bearing so that insulating washer is original. The drive end washer was replaced along with the drive end bearing. I'm in Mevagissey, Cornwall. Anna - I've emailed you direct a few times - did you get them? I've also posted the mag to you as you suggested so would be pleased to know if it arrives safely. It's expected to arrive by Friday. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 09. 2017
Forgot to note - I don't have the sprag so had to find another way of doing it. G

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 09. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
I've given up. I'm posting it off to Anna. At least I might have the bike back on the road by summer. I might also find out what I was doing wrong. I'll let you all know for future ref. George

 

 HELLO George  Today  I have Received your Post  And Made A Start On your 1955 MO1L  mag dyno    I cannot see an insulating  felt washer   behind the bearing on the point end plate  but found Insulating felt washer and two counter-sunk screws in a small plastic bag,  the fibre gear seems to protruding out and catching the cover plate  now I have to make a tool  to remove the fiber gear  has specifide in the manual   I have a Number of LuCas Manuals  we give every thing a clean and the see what the problem  with it  ,   we sort it not mater what  , i will come back to like new yours anna j 

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 09. 2017

Hello  This Magdno is just like the one I did On my Norton 1951  Es2   I and wish I still had it today good old motorcycle   and a good go to work bike  yours anna j  

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 09. 2017
Thanks Anna.Keep me posted. BTW Skip I made an error in an earlier post. I did indeed fit the contact breaker bearing as it was a replacement body. I may have re-used the original insulating washer and it doesn't show so Anna is assuming it's not there. We'll find that out when Anna digs in! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 10. 2017

Hello George   well to remove  the bearing outer race  I will have to warm things up to let it just drop out   but I will do this in an oven so I get some tempura control  this type of alloy does not stand for  to much heat   so  I have to be very careful with it,   I do have spare felt washers   so we see    I am 63 today  so a Day off  and You do to worry I sort it  will be better than new  have FUN  

              Yours   Anna J

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 11. 2017
Happy Birthday, Anna! You're entitled to ONE day off! George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 14. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Happy Birthday, Anna! You're entitled to ONE day off! George

 

 
 Hello, George, I have tried To email if you got my email  you know I need your phone number so we can have a talk about this Magneto of yours     
 
       hope to hear from you soon     Yours Anna J

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 14. 2017
Hi Anna - I've responded to you direct via your email. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 15. 2017
Hi Anna - just to confirm that I can't phone you as I don't have your phone number. George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 16. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Hi Anna - just to confirm that I can't phone you as I don't have your phone number. George
 phone number  01430430831 after 5 pm   

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at March 16. 2017
Thanks Anna. I'll call you this evening. G

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 17. 2017

Hello For NOC members  This Magneto I am doing for George   Is a bit of a mess new armature that's out of round by 0.005 thou which is just enough to catch in inside the body and make a contact  shorting out the magneto process,  So the only way I can think of is taking out about 0.005 thou out of the body the magnet fits to one side  and its only magnetised steel I am grinding  out  bit at a time and very carefully to  making measurements in-between times  on my mill drill  I use a fine  set of stones from this process  . has you cannot take anything off the armature you disturbed the windings  inside,   more up dates later on yours anna j     

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by Bob Matthews at March 18. 2017

Hi Anna,

Surely, if the armature is out of round by 5 thou, then it's the armature that needs putting between centres and correcting because the shaft is bent.  Or are you saying that it's 5 thou off centre with the housing?  If it's 5 thou off centre with the housing, then it's the bearing location that needs looking at no?

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at March 18. 2017
Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

Hi Anna,

Surely, if the armature is out of round by 5 thou, then it's the armature that needs putting between centres and correcting because the shaft is bent.  Or are you saying that it's 5 thou off centre with the housing?  If it's 5 thou off centre with the housing, then it's the bearing location that needs looking at no?

Hello thanks Bob for your good remarks  you made valid point  And I have measured the body housing  and it's  out of round too would you believe,   By the way the shaft is not bent I have had my Mercer clocking dial gauge on it too, In my Atlas 10 inch Lathe, It looks like to me the Armature steel centers are only out on their edges has that's where it's catching the inner part of the body  on one edge only  at the top right-hand side  the bearing are new ones  and have been fitted  right there square on in their housing  and insulated by the felt washers fitted right and all square  and true . I think I only need to take a few thou off one side, but before doing this I will re-check everything again and make sure All is true and in line,  I do not intend rushing this job  and will check things has I go Has I would like to get this right and working  right to   thank you for your input   and I keep you posted    yours  anna j

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by paul_wolf at Saturday 11:48

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

Hi Anna,

Surely, if the armature is out of round by 5 thou, then it's the armature that needs putting between centres and correcting because the shaft is bent.  Or are you saying that it's 5 thou off centre with the housing?  If it's 5 thou off centre with the housing, then it's the bearing location that needs looking at no?

Hello thanks Bob for your good remarks  you made valid point  And I have measured the body housing  and it's  out of round too would you believe,   By the way the shaft is not bent I have had my Mercer clocking dial gauge on it too, In my Atlas 10 inch Lathe, It looks like to me the Armature steel centers are only out on their edges has that's where it's catching the inner part of the body  on one edge only  at the top right-hand side  the bearing are new ones  and have been fitted  right there square on in their housing  and insulated by the felt washers fitted right and all square  and true . I think I only need to take a few thou off one side, but before doing this I will re-check everything again and make sure All is true and in line,  I do not intend rushing this job  and will check things has I go Has I would like to get this right and working  right to   thank you for your input   and I keep you posted    yours  anna j

 

I have been following this thread with interest and i am amazed at some of the comments which have been made about George's MO1 magneto.  Firstly i have rewound and rebuilt hundreds of MO1 magneto's in my 50 years of repairing magnetos and i have never had a problem reassembling one.  Giving someone a magneto to repair with very little knowledge on how they were built and assembled is very dangerous as it is possible that they can damage the magneto beyond repair.  As stated in the previous threads there is no such thing as a felt bearing washer, they are called insulating cups and come in different thickness's.   There are also rear bearing housing shims and armature shaft shims (fitted between the HT slip ring and bearing)  which also come in different thickness's. Between these you will obtain the correct position for the armature and the clutch cover with the proper gasket will fit perfectly.  I was shocked to read that anna was going to remove metal from the magnet in the body which must not be done.  If there is a tight spot, (which can sometimes occur once the armature has been rewound and put in the oven to cure the varnish),  the bobbin can distort due to the heat in the oven and this can be rectified with a SLIGHT skim of the armature. Also with the magneto being apart it is a good idea to remagnetise the body. You only want your magneto to be rebuilt once so i suggest that you have it done properly and contact a professional.  There are quite a few advertised in the services section of the NOC.      Paul Wolf -Magneto Repairs. 07831 446958.

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at Saturday 12:40

Hello  I think your trying to say I have very little knowledge because my name is Anna !  well i can put your mind at ease  i done these jobs before now  but this one is not a good mag to start with its made up from  new and old parts and I have not done much to it yet but  clean up some Burrs and odd marks and done some measurements  and looking at getting some feedback from you guys   So thank you for your contributions  but in engineering there is more ways than one, to do a job,  it just needs some thinking about !    And I just trying to help out and, I am not asking for any payment  in doing this job    like some of you experts  that charge a fortune for just a small job   

yours   anna j   

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by paul_wolf at Saturday 13:12

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Hello  I think your trying to say I have very little knowledge because my name is Anna !  well i can put your mind at ease  i done these jobs before now  but this one is not a good mag to start with its made up from  new and old parts and I have not done much to it yet but  clean up some Burrs and odd marks and done some measurements  and looking at getting some feedback from you guys   So thank you for your contributions  but in engineering there is more ways than one, to do a job,  it just needs some thinking about !    And I just trying to help out and, I am not asking for any payment  in doing this job    like some of you experts  that charge a fortune for just a small job

yours   anna j

 

Hi, I certainly am not saying that because your name is Anna, you have very little knowledge, but from statements i read in the thread, there is a lot of incorrect advice given, maybe through lack of experience in repairing magnetos. I cannot comment on your statement " that some experts charge a fortune for a small job," (that certainly is not the case with myself) as i have not had the experience of letting other people repair magneto's.  I have given free advice to many NOC members and tried to help them as much as possible and i even test members dynamo armatures on my growler free of charge apart from return postage.If you need any help,please call me.Paul Wolf Magneto Repairs 07831446958

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by George Phillips at Saturday 16:20
Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George

Re: More magneto mire

Posted by paul_wolf at Sunday 08:30
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George
Hi George,If you got the body from Ebay i do recommended that you get it remagnetised.Cheers Paul
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