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F1 running problem

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  • F1 running problem

    Posted by ian_loram at April 13. 2013

    I am new to the F1 experience and what a ride she is (on the open road). You can thread her through the eye of a needle! and what a sound!  so early last summer I took here out for my fist short spin and when weather permitted several more short spins.  It had been a while then before we went out agian, so she did not want to start on the button but living on top of a hill she bump started. I had quite a long ride indeed and not stopping to turn off the engine until I got to a local motorbike cafe with about 100 bikers present.  On stopping the fans kept going for about ten minutes as a couple of lads pointed out to me.  Being a novice but knowing they run very hot I said this was normal. However on coming into the car park the reserve light had come on (Christ that was a lot of fuel used even though I know they do drink it)!  So on leaving I went up the road a quarter of a mile and filled up.  I turned off the reserve switch but she would not start, so I turned it on, still she would not start, seemed like battery had been run down by the long time the fans had been on even though I had not stopped her for about 1 1/2 hours on the run.  So beside the garage was a steep hill, after much sweating and panting I got far enough up to bump her. This I did and the engine started but just in a idle tick over way. I got to the flat and she still was going at about 10 mile an hour in first and the turning of the throttle made no different at all.  I traveled about 3 miles even going up some hills at 10 m.p.h. until I got to a friends where I left her.  So any thoughts what the problem could be please ( I am not a mechanic but have some good mates) although they are not used to Rotaries.

    Ian 

    • Re: F1 running problem

      Posted by ian_loram at August 11. 2013

      Previously ian_loram wrote:

      I am new to the F1 experience and what a ride she is (on the open road). You can thread her through the eye of a needle! and what a sound!  so early last summer I took here out for my fist short spin and when weather permitted several more short spins.  It had been a while then before we went out agian, so she did not want to start on the button but living on top of a hill she bump started. I had quite a long ride indeed and not stopping to turn off the engine until I got to a local motorbike cafe with about 100 bikers present.  On stopping the fans kept going for about ten minutes as a couple of lads pointed out to me.  Being a novice but knowing they run very hot I said this was normal. However on coming into the car park the reserve light had come on (Christ that was a lot of fuel used even though I know they do drink it)!  So on leaving I went up the road a quarter of a mile and filled up.  I turned off the reserve switch but she would not start, so I turned it on, still she would not start, seemed like battery had been run down by the long time the fans had been on even though I had not stopped her for about 1 1/2 hours on the run.  So beside the garage was a steep hill, after much sweating and panting I got far enough up to bump her. This I did and the engine started but just in a idle tick over way. I got to the flat and she still was going at about 10 mile an hour in first and the turning of the throttle made no different at all.  I traveled about 3 miles even going up some hills at 10 m.p.h. until I got to a friends where I left her.  So any thoughts what the problem could be please ( I am not a mechanic but have some good mates) although they are not used to Rotaries.

      Ian 


      • Re: F1 running problem

        Posted by ian_loram at August 11. 2013

        Previously ian_loram wrote:

        Previously ian_loram wrote:

        I am new to the F1 experience and what a ride she is (on the open road). You can thread her through the eye of a needle! and what a sound!  so early last summer I took here out for my fist short spin and when weather permitted several more short spins.  It had been a while then before we went out agian, so she did not want to start on the button but living on top of a hill she bump started. I had quite a long ride indeed and not stopping to turn off the engine until I got to a local motorbike cafe with about 100 bikers present.  On stopping the fans kept going for about ten minutes as a couple of lads pointed out to me.  Being a novice but knowing they run very hot I said this was normal. However on coming into the car park the reserve light had come on (Christ that was a lot of fuel used even though I know they do drink it)!  So on leaving I went up the road a quarter of a mile and filled up.  I turned off the reserve switch but she would not start, so I turned it on, still she would not start, seemed like battery had been run down by the long time the fans had been on even though I had not stopped her for about 1 1/2 hours on the run.  So beside the garage was a steep hill, after much sweating and panting I got far enough up to bump her. This I did and the engine started but just in a idle tick over way. I got to the flat and she still was going at about 10 mile an hour in first and the turning of the throttle made no different at all.  I traveled about 3 miles even going up some hills at 10 m.p.h. until I got to a friends where I left her.  So any thoughts what the problem could be please ( I am not a mechanic but have some good mates) although they are not used to Rotaries.

        Ian 


        Have the problem sorted as the battery which was still situated under the tank and beside the engine had failed after just six months.  My mate Steve made a new battery box situated between the frame and above the rear wheel hugger. But we managed to get a larger battery in with an 19AH rating.  WHAT A DIFFERENCE, she starts by just looking at the button.

        Ian

      • Re: F1 running problem

        Posted by ian_loram at April 27. 2013

        Many thanks for all your help.  Rotaries are quite different then other bikes, great to have this info available for future references

        Ian

        • Re: F1 running problem

          Posted by Chris Grimmett at April 13. 2013

          Ian,

          The position of the battery on the F1 ensures that it gets plenty of the excess heat thrown off by the engine.  This means that the electrolyte can dry out quite easily.  Been there, done that [Norton Day, Squire's Café].  Remedy - the fairly standard modification to move the battery back towards the rear of the machine.

          Yes, you can expect the fans to keep going for quite a while after you have stopped riding.  Normal.  It will do that even more if ever the weather warms up here.

          Before starting, you need to crack the throttle open a little with the ignition on in order to switch on the fuel pump and get petrol circulating.  The pump does not run when the throttle is in the fully closed position.

          Rotaries like a decent speed of engine turnover before they start.  Remedy - buy a good battery.  I have extolled the virtues of e.g. Odyssey on these pages before but you might now also look at the Shorai and its equivalents.  Try jump leading the bike from  e.g. a hearse and get the engine really spinning [and on clean plugs].  If it is still reluctant to start, go to the next paragraph.

          Persistently poor starting on a rotary can be due to rotor seal springs having expired.  Some of mine had gone and once they were replaced, the change was very noticeable for the better.  Another way to stop a rotary from starting is to blip the throttle once it fires.  counter-intuitive when compared to what you normally do, but I was told this, tried it and it seems to be true.

          Is the cause of your slow running as simple as single-rotor operation due to an oiled plug?

          • Re: F1 running problem

            Posted by ian_loram at April 27. 2013

            Previously wrote:

            Ian,

            The position of the battery on the F1 ensures that it gets plenty of the excess heat thrown off by the engine.  This means that the electrolyte can dry out quite easily.  Been there, done that [Norton Day, Squire's Café].  Remedy - the fairly standard modification to move the battery back towards the rear of the machine.

            Yes, you can expect the fans to keep going for quite a while after you have stopped riding.  Normal.  It will do that even more if ever the weather warms up here.

            Before starting, you need to crack the throttle open a little with the ignition on in order to switch on the fuel pump and get petrol circulating.  The pump does not run when the throttle is in the fully closed position.

            Rotaries like a decent speed of engine turnover before they start.  Remedy - buy a good battery.  I have extolled the virtues of e.g. Odyssey on these pages before but you might now also look at the Shorai and its equivalents.  Try jump leading the bike from  e.g. a hearse and get the engine really spinning [and on clean plugs].  If it is still reluctant to start, go to the next paragraph.

            Persistently poor starting on a rotary can be due to rotor seal springs having expired.  Some of mine had gone and once they were replaced, the change was very noticeable for the better.  Another way to stop a rotary from starting is to blip the throttle once it fires.  counter-intuitive when compared to what you normally do, but I was told this, tried it and it seems to be true.

            Is the cause of your slow running as simple as single-rotor operation due to an oiled plug?

             

          • Re: F1 running problem

            Posted by ian_loram at April 27. 2013

            Thank you Chris, all info greatly appreciated.  We give it a go in a few weekends and post back details for Denis and you on how I got on.  Just taking my 1930 model 24 combo to the Church were my son Dom is getting married today as he is leaving the wedding on her.  No battery with the old girl (just a re-con mag).

            Ian

            • Re: F1 running problem

              Posted by denis_bourne at April 15. 2013

              Hello Ian. They like a very good battery, I have the battery placed under the rear of the the seat in a cradle away from any engine heat, also the biggest capacity battery you can fit into that space. I use a gel battery. If you do not move the battery a Varta battery is the only thing that will start it and only then if you keep it charged up. All the above that Chris mentioned will help. Sounds like you fowled a plug up or the ignition unit has packed up, and gone down on one cylinder this happened to me just as I was about to go for a Sunday run.To check pull the H.T. lead off the left or right hand coil and with a spare lead and spark plug turn the engine over to see if you have a spark then try the other coil. Start every 3-4 weeks to keep the rotors oiled up if you intend to use it regularly other wise remove plugs and oil the rotors otherwise they will dry out then it could be big bucks. Hope that helps.

               

              Denis

              • Re: F1 running problem

                Posted by ian_loram at July 22. 2013

                Hi all

                Well, yesterday the bike fired again.  It was just the battery.  Steve and Dave two mates made and fitted a new battery box under the seat hump and ran a couple of leads for easy charging.  I spoke with the old boy at my local batter/rewind garage and he came up with a 19 amp hour battery.  This has made such a difference that she cranks over as quick as a flash!

                So had a great ride out and hope to use her on this weeks bike night (so we might have 2 F1s on display.

                Thanks for all your help chaps, I have a ppreciated it.

                Kind regards

                Ian

                P.S. my son Dom has just purchased a Commander so that he can attend Germany next year

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