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Indian Interstate tank

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Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Martin Freeman at April 11. 2017

I have found the above posts very informative. I have purchased one of these Indian tanks in bare metal and so far have only primed it. We should consider these tanks in the same light as used second hand ones fron the breaker; They need testing before spending a fortune on paint.

Two things stand out from the posts, assume they are full of muck and rinse out with parrafin before fitting and secondly use them with plenty of petrol in to find any pin holes that need a spot of braze. Steel tanks with leaks are nothing new and can be fixed, and to me are a better idea than 40 year old fibreglass -lined or not.

regards martin

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Kevin Feltoe at April 11. 2017

Previously Martin Freeman wrote:

I have found the above posts very informative. I have purchased one of these Indian tanks in bare metal and so far have only primed it. We should consider these tanks in the same light as used second hand ones fron the breaker; They need testing before spending a fortune on paint.

Two things stand out from the posts, assume they are full of muck and rinse out with parrafin before fitting and secondly use them with plenty of petrol in to find any pin holes that need a spot of braze. Steel tanks with leaks are nothing new and can be fixed, and to me are a better idea than 40 year old fibreglass -lined or not.

regards martin

Unfortunately Martin, they sell these tanks in finished condition. I.e. painted.  One hopes that a finished tank would be exactly that. I am not naïve enough to expect not to have to clean one out, but I didn't expect that the fuel would wash off an inner coating and block the carb. Nor did I expect a painted tank to leak through pin holes and cause the paint to bubble. Brazing a painted tank would have called for a re-spray. Had I washed the tank out vigorously I would probably have damaged it. The supplied and fitted tank cap was so loose, it was obviously bodged to fit and wouldn't hold fuel. It was so loose (undersized roll pin) that the fuel washed off the paint around the filler mouth within hours.

You are lucky to have bought an unpainted one. I wish you luck with it, but I suggest a pressure test under water before you go any further.

Kev

 

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by andy_chetwood at April 11. 2017

Previously Kevin Feltoe wrote:

Right then Gents. How do we go about lobbying the Club to have fuel tanks made?

Do we collect signatures and hand them in at the Chairman's front door, or do we just generally moan and gripe for ever more. Perhaps this is the first really really MAJOR manufacturing purchase that the club needs to make, or at least get an idea of the cost. It seems to me that the EC could decide how much could be put to one side for fuel tank manufacture and then see if the job could be done within that price. As fibreglass tanks are being eaten alive, new Interstates would be the logical first build, I think! There must be someone out there that could make a batch of six for a 'sensible' price.

What say you all?  Yes or no?

Perhaps we need a 'Club Priority Purchase' page on the web site for NOC Members to append their names to. Or perhaps we have and I've missed it.

Kev

What Ho Kev.

I'm saying this in a hushed voice with a cupped hand. I think you have a good point. I hope you don't live close to me because I don't want to be in the vicinity when the NOC EC lightning bolts begin to rain down.

By the way this isn't me and I reserve the right to be tried by a jury.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by robert_tuck at April 11. 2017

I have a spent a little  time in  dealing with Indian suppliers.  I think there are craftsmen over there very capable of producing what we want at a very cheap price.The problem is that they don't know what we want or expect.  There is also a comunication problem caused by several layers of middlemen who have no technical understanding of what we need and little interest.  Items are being produced by   tradesmen who have never seen a Norton , ridden one and dont have a bike to measure. Think how different this is to the situation back in the day at Nortons or AMC and you will get a feel for what is the likely result.The quality control needs to be done at the point of manufacture  if the product is to get the feedback it needs to improve.Usually the mark up is so large that the dealer justs accepts the loss on returns and does not bother to pass on the issues back to the maker.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Neil Wyatt at April 11. 2017

Previously Kevin Feltoe wrote:

Right then Gents. How do we go about lobbying the Club to have fuel tanks made?

Do we collect signatures and hand them in at the Chairman's front door, or do we just generally moan and gripe for ever more. Perhaps this is the first really really MAJOR manufacturing purchase that the club needs to make, or at least get an idea of the cost. It seems to me that the EC could decide how much could be put to one side for fuel tank manufacture and then see if the job could be done within that price. As fibreglass tanks are being eaten alive, new Interstates would be the logical first build, I think! There must be someone out there that could make a batch of six for a 'sensible' price.

What say you all?  Yes or no?

Perhaps we need a 'Club Priority Purchase' page on the web site for NOC Members to append their names to. Or perhaps we have and I've missed it.

Kev

I'll sign up to that Kev and for all the other Norton parts currently not available. But wouldn't it be better to first tackle the root cause and lobby government so that we might have a real choice in fuel. Currently we are ruled by targets for no good reason.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by alan_blackhurst at April 11. 2017

A company called Holtworks will make aluminium tanks if you order minimum​ 10. They do look good check out there web site

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Kevin Feltoe at April 11. 2017

Previously Kevin Feltoe wrote:

Previously Martin Freeman wrote:

I have found the above posts very informative. I have purchased one of these Indian tanks in bare metal and so far have only primed it. We should consider these tanks in the same light as used second hand ones fron the breaker; They need testing before spending a fortune on paint.

Two things stand out from the posts, assume they are full of muck and rinse out with parrafin before fitting and secondly use them with plenty of petrol in to find any pin holes that need a spot of braze. Steel tanks with leaks are nothing new and can be fixed, and to me are a better idea than 40 year old fibreglass -lined or not.

regards martin

Unfortunately Martin, they sell these tanks in finished condition. I.e. painted.  One hopes that a finished tank would be exactly that. I am not naïve enough to expect not to have to clean one out, but I didn't expect that the fuel would wash off an inner coating and block the carb. Nor did I expect a painted tank to leak through pin holes and cause the paint to bubble. Brazing a painted tank would have called for a re-spray. Had I washed the tank out vigorously I would probably have damaged it. The supplied and fitted tank cap was so loose, it was obviously bodged to fit and wouldn't hold fuel. It was so loose (undersized roll pin) that the fuel washed off the paint around the filler mouth within hours.

You are lucky to have bought an unpainted one. I wish you luck with it, but I suggest a pressure test under water before you go any further.

Kev

 

By the way Martin, if you haven't done so already, and before you get it painted, you might also want to fit a tank cap to your tank with a correct size roll pin to see if the cap will open properly.

Kev

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Kevin Feltoe at April 11. 2017

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

I have a spent a little  time in  dealing with Indian suppliers.  I think there are craftsmen over there very capable of producing what we want at a very cheap price.The problem is that they don't know what we want or expect.  There is also a comunication problem caused by several layers of middlemen who have no technical understanding of what we need and little interest.  Items are being produced by   tradesmen who have never seen a Norton , ridden one and dont have a bike to measure. Think how different this is to the situation back in the day at Nortons or AMC and you will get a feel for what is the likely result.The quality control needs to be done at the point of manufacture  if the product is to get the feedback it needs to improve.Usually the mark up is so large that the dealer justs accepts the loss on returns and does not bother to pass on the issues back to the maker.

 

Robert, you are absolutely right. The problem is undoubtedly caused by a complete lack of understanding of what is wanted and expected by people who actually ride our motorcycles. I have no doubt that Quality Control would not even know where to start, and why should it when customers are thousands of miles away and unlikely to bite back. I have also noticed recently that toys for my grandchildren that have been made in China can be a total let down. They can be quite deplorable; so bad in fact that I fume at the thought of wasted effort and resources. I refuse to buy them, but those who have lesser expectations in the family do, and are continuously underwhelmed.

Is it that our expectations are to blame here? Are they too high? Then again, is it just a case of, 'getting what you pay for'?

It is noticeable that Vintageindia produces a legion of 'stuff'. I can't help wondering what their other 'stuff' is like. If its what I have now come to expect, I'll stay well clear.

Kev

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Kevin Feltoe at May 11. 2017

Here is the final chapter in what has turned out to be a total disaster.

The seller agreed to take the tank back and to refund me my money. He also agreed to refund me my postage costs if I agreed not to leave feedback. Postage to India. £72.

I returned the tank by courier and four days later the courier company contacted me to say that the seller was refusing to accept the item, and that I would have to contact Customs in India if I wanted them to try to deliver it again, otherwise I would have to pay to have it returned to me.

I contacted eBay and they discovered that it had been delivered. So I contacted the seller who explained that it was going to cost him £170 to have it released from Customs and that as he wasn't prepared to accept it, he had decided to send me another brand new, non leaking tank for free.

As leaks were only part of the problem I had with the first one, I told him to stick his free tank where the sun don't shine. I then contacted Ebay and asked them to intervene. They refunded me the cost of the tank straight away. I then reminded the seller that he owed me £72 for the postage and that if I didn't get it, I would start leaving some pretty awful feedback.

The courier company contacted me again asking me what I wanted to happen to the tank I'd returned, as it was gathering dust in a Customs warehouse in India. I told them to chuck it in the skip.

After quite some time, and a refusal to answer my emails it seems I'm £72 out of pocket. I said at the beginning that I would not take sides, and that I would leave people to make their own decisions regarding whether to buy from Vintageindia13 or not.

DON'T DO IT!

And think about this. Is he just a middle man, supplying the same junk as all the other middle men?

That has to be by far the worst purchase I have ever made, anywhere, ever.

Kev 

Attachments

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Barry Carson at May 11. 2017

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by robert_tuck at May 12. 2017

I bought some plated brass vintage levers from India after seeing photos of the product on E-Bay.  They were cheap.  They arrived promptly and were well packed. They would fit a bar somewhere between 7/8th and 1"  but not either. The cable nipple hole was undersize, the clamping arangement was at 90 degrees to those in the advert,the pivot was too small for safe use.  I tossed them into the box of  new junk bought from British Norton specialists.  I emailed the supplier with sugestions how they could improve the product at no cost yet sell it for 3 times the price. No reply. E-Bay refunded me ,the supplier said keep them.  I re-engineered them and they are now in use.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Katherine Scott at May 12. 2017

Rather than calling on the club to find a suitable small business to manufacture a limited number of one off tanks.  

 Should we as a club approach Andover Norton,  they have the product drawings and I presume tooling drawings and a bill of materials required to produce an Interstate tank for example. Combined with existing trading relationships with a network of trusted suppliers. 

There is obviously a world wide market for a OEM quality tank.  AN investment in the product would see a healthy return. 

The end product would definitely be more expensive than the misshaped leaky junk on eBay but then you get what you pay for!

Anyone from AN care to comment?

Best regards  

Esme   AKA Katherine Scott

 

  

 

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Neil Wyatt at May 12. 2017

Katherine, already been down this route. Joe S of AN replied that it has to be commercially viable for them to tool up to manufacture new lines.

This is where the club comes into it; for the club it should be about providing a service above making a profit. (As long as the club remains solvent)

However, I see no reason why the Norton specialists can't help the club with advice and possible suppliers. How long will we wait and will we live long enough to see some action?

Hopefully, wideline lifting handles in Stainless should be available via the club any time soon? (I got mine)

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by John Shorter at May 12. 2017

In the end, there are three choices:-

1. Spend anything up to £1,000  on a tank made, and painted in the U.K. (which may still not be perfect).

2. Sell, or keep the bike in the garage, complaining parts are unobtainable.

3. Take a chance on what IS available from India, or elsewhere, and get back on the road!

Barring an unforseen catastrophe, my Dominator will be at the international rally.  Apart from the slightly incorrect colour, the Indian tank is almost indistinguishable from original.  Anyone interested is welcome to inspect this product.  I doubt if there will be another '54 model 88 (with an 80 year old rider) in attendance.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by richard_payne at May 12. 2017

The option that you haven't mentioned, John is to use the network and find a second-hand tank although it's likely to need some repairs and the tank and panels will need painting so it won't be cheap. We're quite well off in Europe as fibreglass tanks were banned early on but they continued to send them to the U.S. where there is a real shortage.

Unfortunately, the two stories show that the real problem with buying from India is that they can do it but don't always.

The Taiwanese Roadster tanks are apparently very good but only allow for a manic 100 mile thrash between fuel stops which is not what Kev was looking for.

Anyone want to buy an NOS fibreglass tangerine Hi-Rider tank by any chance ?

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by andy_chetwood at May 13. 2017

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Katherine, already been down this route. Joe S of AN replied that it has to be commercially viable for them to tool up to manufacture new lines.

This is where the club comes into it; for the club it should be about providing a service above making a profit. (As long as the club remains solvent)

However, I see no reason why the Norton specialists can't help the club with advice and possible suppliers. How long will we wait and will we live long enough to see some action?

Hopefully, wideline lifting handles in Stainless should be available via the club any time soon? (I got mine)

 

Which club? Thin ice.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by John Shorter at May 13. 2017

Hi Richard, your options, of buying a second-hand tank, is fine, but, only if you have more than one bike to ride.    By the time you have located a suitable replacement, arranged for delivery, then had it refurbished, months could go by.   Maybe I was lucky, my tank arrived, undamaged, and was ready to fit.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Neil Wyatt at May 13. 2017

Previously andy_chetwood wrote:

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Katherine, already been down this route. Joe S of AN replied that it has to be commercially viable for them to tool up to manufacture new lines.

This is where the club comes into it; for the club it should be about providing a service above making a profit. (As long as the club remains solvent)

However, I see no reason why the Norton specialists can't help the club with advice and possible suppliers. How long will we wait and will we live long enough to see some action?

Hopefully, wideline lifting handles in Stainless should be available via the club any time soon? (I got mine)

 

Which club? Thin ice.

Andy, the Norton Owners Club, if they get their fingers out?

I bought my wideline lifting handles direct from the manufacturer to my spec as the club wideline rear mudguard replica ran a different length between the hole centres.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by andy_chetwood at May 13. 2017

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Previously andy_chetwood wrote:

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Katherine, already been down this route. Joe S of AN replied that it has to be commercially viable for them to tool up to manufacture new lines.

This is where the club comes into it; for the club it should be about providing a service above making a profit. (As long as the club remains solvent)

However, I see no reason why the Norton specialists can't help the club with advice and possible suppliers. How long will we wait and will we live long enough to see some action?

Hopefully, wideline lifting handles in Stainless should be available via the club any time soon? (I got mine)

 

Which club? Thin ice.

Andy, the Norton Owners Club, if they get their fingers out?

I bought my wideline lifting handles direct from the manufacturer to my spec as the club wideline rear mudguard replica ran a different length between the hole centres.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by andy_chetwood at May 13. 2017

Neil

While sucking air thru' teeth. I really enjoy your posts but beware 'The Sword of Damocles' or EC.

I'm not sure if that's irony or sarcasm; probably the former as it's not directed at anyone in particular.

 

Andy

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Kevin Feltoe at May 13. 2017

Not wishing to rain on anyone's parade, but why is it that quite often the subject matter of topics on this web site goes down the toilet. This thread started regarding 'Indian' fuel tanks and has now gone on to wide line lifting handles, Club rear mudguard replicas and 88 year old riders with 54 model 88s.

I'm not 'having a go' Neil or John, but it seems to me that the web site needs splitting up a little more. Perhaps fuel tanks need a separate heading. Wheels, seats, frames, paint, painters, electrics would all probably benefit.

I've noticed that people sometimes ask a question that has been asked before, simply because a previous answer to the same question has become buried deep in a thread somewhere and is too difficult to find.

If anyone wants to know how I'm getting on with the fuel tank lining, please go to that thread.

Kev 

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Neil Wyatt at May 14. 2017

Previously Kevin Feltoe wrote:

Not wishing to rain on anyone's parade, but why is it that quite often the subject matter of topics on this web site goes down the toilet. This thread started regarding 'Indian' fuel tanks and has now gone on to wide line lifting handles, Club rear mudguard replicas and 88 year old riders with 54 model 88s.

I'm not 'having a go' Neil or John, but it seems to me that the web site needs splitting up a little more. Perhaps fuel tanks need a separate heading. Wheels, seats, frames, paint, painters, electrics would all probably benefit.

I've noticed that people sometimes ask a question that has been asked before, simply because a previous answer to the same question has become buried deep in a thread somewhere and is too difficult to find.

If anyone wants to know how I'm getting on with the fuel tank lining, please go to that thread.

Kev

Love to know how you are getting on with your tank?

The thing is that all these things are linked and that's why your tank may not always be at the centre. The wideline lifting handles were an example of what the club, I believe, should be producing for us and good quality tanks come into that category as you, yourself mentioned at the end of the first page. John, on the other hand had a good experience with an Indian tank and gives some balance to the thread, though on your account I wouldn't want one.

Please be thankful I didn't mention the E word. I was tempted as this substance was the route cause of why you bought the Indian tank in the first place. Just saying!

Andy, no tongue in cheek or drawn swords, I meant what I said and said what I meant.  There is work to be done.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by john_holmes at May 14. 2017

Norton Wideline Grab Handles in Stainless, scoll to midway. Hope this is the same as a lifting handles.

 

http://www.classicbikeracks.co.uk/untitled

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Neil Wyatt at May 14. 2017

Sorry to answer this on your thread, Kev.

Yes John, the very same, made by John Jackson in Cumbria. I found him after a thread saying that wideline versions were not available.

He supplies RGM etc with slimline handles but none asked him for wideline handles. If the club had a small stock it would eliminate the search and there would be a template for when John J retires.

Back to the Indian tank:

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by John Shorter at May 14. 2017

Kevin, you are implying "Indian fuel tanks are rubbish".  I was acting as "Devil's advocate".  A "Wideline" Dominator fuel tank is a more complex shape than any of the Commando range, and my Indian copy was almost perfect.   There are many U.K. suppliers of "so called" Norton parts, which are completely useless, but, you don't condemn an entire country on the basis of one bad product.

p.s. my age is approaching 80, not 88, and I presume that I was riding Nortons before you were conceived.

Re: Indian Interstate tank

Posted by Kevin Feltoe at May 15. 2017

Before it becomes any more perverse, could you please close this thread down now Dave. It has gone far enough I think.

Thanks.

Kev

 

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