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Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

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Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by andrew_english at September 10. 2017

Dear sages of the Norton world.

I have a Dominator 650SS which wet sumps (waddaya know?). The chap I bought it from suggested kicking it over with the plugs out after leaving the machine for a long time and that's what I do. Which would all be fine, but if the bloomin' thing is left for a long time (three or more weeks), the oil pours out of the machine. I'm not exactly sure where from, but there are steady drips off the bottom of the primary chain case, the front lower cross bolt holding the crankcases together and the Norvil two-stage sump plug. Leave the machine for a couple of days after running and you get a few drops, leave it any longer and it's a sizeable puddle. I haven't used it for seven weeks and its drained almost half the oil tank. I wrote about this recently in Octane magazine and it's getting embarassing how big the puddle is - I'm bulk buying drive cleaner.

So, I'm away at the Frankfurt Motor Show all week and this weekend my lovely brother was going to help me fit a Norvil belt drive conversion, but I've got a horrible feeling we should try and sort this problem first.

To that end I wondered if any of you had any easy suggestions for the seals, crush washers, gaskets and so on, which we should look at changing to stop the almighty oil leak when the slippery stuff hits the sump. I was hoping not to have to take Naughty completely apart, but clearly we'll have the inner and outer primary drive cases off it to fit the clutch and Norvil side stand. What should I order from them that isn't going to break the bank that can be delivered this week and which we can fit at the weekend.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Yours sincerely, Andrew English

 

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by michael_sullivan at September 10. 2017

Andrew:  There have been many-many posting about the problem of wet sumping.  You can find them by doing a search on "wet sumping" on this site.

The real answer is to ride the bike at least every couple of days.

Preventing that, you can install at great risk, a ball valve in the oil line from the tank to the oil pump. Some people have installed a micro-switch on the valve that will not let you start the engine until the valve is opened.

It seems that no one has been able to invent a pump that will not let oil thru when at idle in the garage.

Good luck....

Mike

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by andrew_english at September 10. 2017

Thanks Mike,

I've been reading them all and yes, you are absolutely right. I'm pretty OK with oil coming past the oil pump and into the sump, but the leaks are far from cool, especially as the lovely lady who lends me barn space looks over her glasses at the black patches on her concrete with what best might be described as a Paddington hard stare...

I just wondered what the most obvious suspects for leaking from the crankcase were and how I should arm myself for this weekend with o rings and the like.

Thanks for answering,

Andy E

 

Previously michael_sullivan wrote:

Andrew:  There have been many-many posting about the problem of wet sumping.  You can find them by doing a search on "wet sumping" on this site.

The real answer is to ride the bike at least every couple of days.

Preventing that, you can install at great risk, a ball valve in the oil line from the tank to the oil pump. Some people have installed a micro-switch on the valve that will not let you start the engine until the valve is opened.

It seems that no one has been able to invent a pump that will not let oil thru when at idle in the garage.

Good luck....

Mike

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by john_hall1 at September 10. 2017

Hi, Andrew,

What about a subtly installed Bleed valve on the oil tank and drain it, when you are not going to use it, ( Lateral thinking see), I knew reading Edward De Bono, would pay off one Day!

 

Cheers

 

John H

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by Neil Wyatt at September 10. 2017

Andrew, do you have the sump filter modification, available from RGM and possibly others that has a smaller magnetic plug in the centre? (A/F spanner or adjustable required) All you then need is a large clean container and a funnel.  Leave the plug out and let the contents drip into the container. When you want to use the bike, pour the oil back in the tank the funnel should help prevent spills.

If your bike were a single the cases would be full much faster, all pumps being equal. The problem with taps and valves is that they only have to fail once or you forget.  You are sure to notice a big tub of oil under your bike!

Not sure about the belt drive though, still, each to their own.

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by robert_tuck at September 10. 2017

If you are taking the primary appart you can easily check the seal on the end of the crankshaft and renew it. They can be displaced by the action of starting the machine with a full sump. A selftapping screw can be used to pull out the old seal on Dommys .The engine sprocket can be an absolute swine to pull off the taper, but there is a pukka dommy puller on E-bay right now,and they are not easy to find,BUY IT.

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by bob_johnson at September 11. 2017

Why not just drain the oil tank with the handy little drain plug whenever you return from a ride and don't intend to use the bike for a few days, takes two minutes. Save the oil and refill when you next intend to use it.

As a by the way are you the Andrew English of journalism fame?

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by David Cooper at September 11. 2017

And protect your landlady's floor with cheap puppy training mats from pound shop. Plastic one side and tissue the other. NOT fancy gel ones!

It'll never stop completely...

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by Neil Wyatt at September 11. 2017

Previously bob_johnson wrote:

Why not just drain the oil tank with the handy little drain plug whenever you return from a ride and don't intend to use the bike for a few days, takes two minutes. Save the oil and refill when you next intend to use it.

As a by the way are you the Andrew English of journalism fame?

 

Bob, I thought of this but on more than one occasion the kick start got in the way and I ended up spilling oil. BUT unless you look in the oil tank you will end up with the same problem as a stuck valve or turned off tap. You are not likely to miss a big bowl of oil under your P&J and even less likely to move the bike with it there.

 

 

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by david_evans at September 11. 2017

As previously mentioned, use your two stage drain valve but also source a Yamaha XS650 reed valve or similar and fit it in the breather from the timing chest (if you have one) to create a -ve pressure in the crankcases. don't waste your time on a spring loaded valve in the feed line. Starting the engine with a crankcase half full of oil is always going to result in a surplus of oil either in the chain case or anywhere else it can get out.

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by steven_woods at September 16. 2017

After reading the comments above, I feel there is a plenty of evidence for fitting a non return valve to prevent wet sumping and again plenty of evidence against. I have just finished rebuilding my Dommie Café racer, and I have fitted a non return valve from Mick Hemming's. I spoke to Mick and he has sold 1,000 so I have installed. My father  installed a small tap in his Manx years ago and told me just remember to turn the tap on and kick over the bike to prime the engine before starting.  Again I have spoken to people who have fitted these type of valves and they have seized and well we all no what comes next. The valve from Mick Hemming's is really well made and I having rebuilt my engine and gearbox based a round his CD's I more than happy with my purchase. The question I have has anyone fitted a oil pressure gauge?

Re: Wet Sumping/Oil leak Suggestions please

Posted by steven_woods at September 16. 2017

After reading the comments above, I feel there is a plenty of evidence for fitting a non return valve to prevent wet sumping and again plenty of evidence against. I have just finished rebuilding my Dommie Café racer, and I have fitted a non return valve from Mick Hemming's. I spoke to Mick and he has sold 1,000 so I have installed. My father  installed a small tap in his Manx years ago and told me just remember to turn the tap on and kick over the bike to prime the engine before starting.  Again I have spoken to people who have fitted these type of valves and they have seized and well we all no what comes next. The valve from Mick Hemming's is really well made and I having rebuilt my engine and gearbox based a round his CD's I more than happy with my purchase. The question I have has anyone fitted a oil pressure gauge?

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