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ES2 head oiling

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ES2 head oiling

Posted by Allen Hanford at August 21. 2017

I'm looking through some just-acquired literature for my just-acquired 1961 ES2 and if I'm reading it correctly the valve gear is oiled by gravity rather than a pump. Is that really right?

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by ian_goodhall at August 21. 2017

It's fed from the return supply to the oil tank. Some of that oil is diverted to the cylinder head. You should have a pipe coming off the scavenge pipe where it enters the oil tank that goes up to the rocker box.

Ian

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by George Phillips at August 21. 2017
Ian's quite right. You could argue that once the oil has passed into the rocker cover it then finds it way down the pushrod tubes and oil-ways by gravity, I suppose. Maybe that's what they meant? George

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Allen Hanford at August 21. 2017

I understand the idea but I was surprised at how primitive it is. I would have thought the valve gear would be fed with oil directly from the pump.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by George Phillips at August 21. 2017
Depends what you mean by "directly", Allen. The feed to the rockers is on the positive side of the pump so you could say it's "directly" (sort of) from the pump as it is on the positive side (pressure wise) not the negative side. Primitive it may be, but it seems to work.George

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Allen Hanford at August 29. 2017
Previously George Phillips wrote:
Depends what you mean by "directly", Allen. The feed to the rockers is on the positive side of the pump so you could say it's "directly" (sort of) from the pump as it is on the positive side (pressure wise) not the negative side. Primitive it may be, but it seems to work.George
It was just a surprise to see it set up that way. I do wonder though if it's something I should change prior to souping it up a bit. I was thinking a little higher compression, ported head and bigger cams. Nothing crazy, just a little oomph.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by David Cooper at August 29. 2017

If it's not broke, don't fix it!

The later Norton Twins have positive feed to the rockers from the pressure side of the pump rather than the lower pressure return side. But even changing an earlier twin to pressure top feed is fraught with issues. Look up Phil Hannan's essay on the topic on this site.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Dan Field at August 30. 2017

Have a word with Mike Pemberton, he's the man for tuning the ES2, I think side valve cams, high comp piston and inlet work are easy enough to do, for £3,000 ish Mike will short stroke it with a goldstar piston and engines those fly apparently! As far as I know the oil feed to the head is fine, in many cases it's too good and that causes problems of its own!

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by David Cooper at August 31. 2017

...and then find you can't get insurance  "have you modified it, sir?".

How do people manage that one?  I thought I read last year that insurers don't actually mind modifications as long as you tell them - but they didn't sound very friendly on the phone when I foolishly admitted to considering buying a modified machine.

It's pretty daft of them to ask the question.  Surely the default condition of a 50++ year old bike is that it must have been modified in lots of ways?

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Dan Field at August 31. 2017

Bike sure insured my modified ES2 (trials) so it is possible, there must be a bigger market now with the popularity of cafe racers and scramblers

dan

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Allen Hanford at September 05. 2017

American insurers are clueless about antique bike modifications. My commando was hit by a car and the adjuster looked at it for a minute and said "what do you think it will cost to fix?". He had never seen a Norton and was relieved when I produced a quote from a local shop.

Mike Pemberton is the pushrod performance guy, right? I've emailed him a couple of times and didn't hear back. I'd rather buy from a guy who knows the machine but since I haven't been able to get in touch I talked to wiseco and they claim they can make a piston for me.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Andy Marks at September 06. 2017

There's lots you can do to make an ES2 go well. I wouldn't worry about oiling the the head though. The pre-48 engines relied on mist up past the puchrods. My 51 ES2 suffered with over oiling and I had to restrict the flow a bit. Several thousand miles later and it's all still working fine.

 

Have a look at the pushrod performance website for ideas on tuning an ES2. The cams he sell are a good modification but I am having trouble with a flat spot around 50-55mph and generally poor acceleration through the mid range. It pulls like a train low down and once it starts picking up after the flat spot it flies! I haven't spoken to anyone else yet that's had the same problem with them though so I'm leaning more towards the head work that was done. I have got another head to fit over the winter and try, I think the first one was just opened up to much.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Allen Hanford at September 06. 2017

Previously Andy Marks wrote:

There's lots you can do to make an ES2 go well. I wouldn't worry about oiling the the head though. The pre-48 engines relied on mist up past the puchrods. My 51 ES2 suffered with over oiling and I had to restrict the flow a bit. Several thousand miles later and it's all still working fine.

 

Have a look at the pushrod performance website for ideas on tuning an ES2. The cams he sell are a good modification but I am having trouble with a flat spot around 50-55mph and generally poor acceleration through the mid range. It pulls like a train low down and once it starts picking up after the flat spot it flies! I haven't spoken to anyone else yet that's had the same problem with them though so I'm leaning more towards the head work that was done. I have got another head to fit over the winter and try, I think the first one was just opened up to much.

 

I tried emailing him but so far have had no response.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Dan Field at September 06. 2017

Try phoning him, although someone did say he hasn't been well?

dan

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Allen Hanford at September 07. 2017

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Try phoning him, although someone did say he hasn't been well?

dan

 

That's exactly what I was afraid of. The problem with old bikes is that they're loved by old guys (including me).

I tried calling I couldn't figure out how to make the UK phone number work. If he's sick I'm not going to bother him anyway.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Dan Field at September 07. 2017

Remove the first zero and replace it with 0044, that should work.

Making it

011441257 471014 from the States I think

I'm sure he won't answer if he's unwell and doesn't want to talk! It's a business number after all?

 

Dan

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by nicholas_reeves at September 07. 2017

I think you will find Mike is on holiday in Ireland.

Re: ES2 head oiling

Posted by Dan Field at September 07. 2017

Ok that's good news it means he's hopefully not unwell!

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