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Ethanol strikes again

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Ethanol strikes again

Posted by robert_tuck at August 16. 2017

My sons Atlas Has been fouling plugs with sticky brown shiney stuff (again).  We thought we had this under control with buying the top grade esso which we are assured contains no eth.  This is only true if the retailers are not theiving scumbags who are topping up the dear tanks with the cheap mixture.  Have to dry the tank out and only fill up again once  we are out of this  country,  Good old IOM, Just have to jet down a bit for proper petrol.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at August 16. 2017
Previously robert_tuck wrote:

My sons Atlas Has been fouling plugs with sticky brown shiney stuff (again).  We thought we had this under control with buying the top grade esso which we are assured contains no eth.  This is only true if the retailers are not theiving scumbags who are topping up the dear tanks with the cheap mixture.  Have to dry the tank out and only fill up again once  we are out of this  country,  Good old IOM, Just have to jet down a bit for proper petrol.

Hello try changing your spark plugs to Champion N9BYC  these are made to deal with Ethanol fuels     have fun  yours  Anna J

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by Gordon Johnston at August 16. 2017

Sounds like the petrol is dissolving something in the tank - old liner perhaps? Ethanol on its own does not leave brown sticky deposits. Top grade Esso (and other brands) contains solvents which are equivalent to carb cleaner - and they do indeed keep the carb clean. They can also dissolve out gunge in the tank.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by robert_tuck at August 16. 2017

Yes its the remains of tank liner put in to stop leaks,just thrown away 3 gallons of esso's dearest (except it was nasty eth stuff that the station put in the synergy plus tank, another fiddle) can't use it as it will ruin whatever it touches ,even finished the mower!. And no Anna there is not a plug made that runs coated in tank liner. Not sure what it does to valves so its a decoke and a tank. Have to be after the IOM now,fingers crossed and a packet of chewing gum.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by Neil Wyatt at August 17. 2017

I'm a bit concerned about this. I've had no issues with the Esso Synergy Supreme + (97 RON) bought in Harrogate and Tadcaster. Has to be with the red label too. Really you should write to Esso as they have pledged E0 outside of the ethanol zones of SW, Teesside and Scotland.

Traces of ethanol from cross contamination in fuel tankers are always going to be a problem if no control of the previous content but it will be more than a trace that causes issues you notice.

Could this have been a tanker driver error?

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by robert_tuck at August 17. 2017

I have been in similar situations  before (with other products) and I called in the weights and measures authority .This was not cross contamination ,the linings totally dissintigrated. As to the honesty of garages?. On two occasions I have suffered attempted card fraud ,both were fuel stations.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by Barry Carson at August 17. 2017

 looking around on the net and came across an article about a petrol tanker that had been involved in an accident the police were worried about it being full of fuel until the driver informed them there was only ethanol left on board and no petrol so is it the case that the driver is the one regulating the ethanol mix.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by david_evans at August 17. 2017

As long as you guys continue to mess about with lined tanks and fibreglass tanks then ethanol will be a pain in your arse. Bite the bullet and fit some proper ethanol proof fuel systems, metal tanks, tygon fuel lines. If your old steel tanks are leaking and need lining then buy a new tank. India is your friend.Smile

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by John Shorter at August 17. 2017

The club now has over 4,500 members.  Strange, only a small fraction, of 1%, seem to have problems with ethanol in fuel. Perhaps there is a completely different problem.  My bike is 63 years old, no alterations to carb, tank, or fuel pipe ( sorry, I did change the fuel pipe recently, but, only for cosmetic reasons). Any fuel available is used (90 octane, or above), with almost no difference in performance.   As for Indian tanks, there ARE good ones being made.  Anyone, at the International Rally, is welcome to inspect mine. 

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by david_evans at August 17. 2017

My thoughts exactly John, My Fastback tanks deteriorated due to poor fibreglass repairs and old age. I think 40 year old fibreglass tanks would be shot by now whether ethanol was used or not. No one will know. I bought an aluminium tank and with painting and postage it was about £450. Not quite the correct fastback shape but slightly larger and good enough for me. (best Commando at Kendal last year)

A club with 4500 members of whom only 20% take an active part is going to make no headway against Government policy, and life is to short to waste time doing it.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by robert_tuck at August 17. 2017

A new tank for the Rudge with paint would probably run out at £1500 , donations gratefully recieved, then there are 2 more---.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by Barry Carson at August 17. 2017

wouldn't be surprised if ethanol has found its way into the grounded spitfires

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by roger_wilson at August 17. 2017

Previously John Shorter wrote:

The club now has over 4,500 members.  Strange, only a small fraction, of 1%, seem to have problems with ethanol in fuel. Perhaps there is a completely different problem.  My bike is 63 years old, no alterations to carb, tank, or fuel pipe ( sorry, I did change the fuel pipe recently, but, only for cosmetic reasons). Any fuel available is used (90 octane, or above), with almost no difference in performance.   As for Indian tanks, there ARE good ones being made.  Anyone, at the International Rally, is welcome to inspect mine.

I still have an old nylon? float needle in my 88's monobloc for the past year and I use BP ultimate bought locally in Botley Hampshire. I understand the higher grade fuel is ethanol free?

Regards, Roger

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by robert_tuck at August 17. 2017

Previously Barry Carson wrote:

wouldn't be surprised if ethanol has found its way into the grounded spitfires

You could be right Barry, did not get a satisfactory answer to the recent Spit engine failure and crash at Biggin. Apparently a fuel problem. If you have cause to visit a fuel injection specialist you will find it is now big business crammed with pump failures (most pumps are not designed for eth). I recently spent £1300 on a pump after 30000 miles only.Don't know how you would eth proof an ally carb, Gold plate? the bottom of my float chamber very badly pitted.Not seen that before eth used.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by Dan Field at August 17. 2017

Ref the Spitfires, If they run on 100LL it's ethanol free. I heard on the radio this morning that it was a mechanical problem, but if you look hard enough i'm sure there's a conspiracy to be found ?!!! :) :)

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by Neil Wyatt at August 17. 2017

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Ref the Spitfires, If they run on 100LL it's ethanol free. I heard on the radio this morning that it was a mechanical problem, but if you look hard enough i'm sure there's a conspiracy to be found ?!!! :) :)

 

Even if it is Ethanol and that is a likely possibility the outcome will not be made public. It was obvious in the cold light of day that the SE corridor petrol problem (Tesco and Morrison's) was caused by ethanol at a time it was first introduced this time around: 2005 / 2006 by stealth. The supermarkets paid out £ 100's a time for knackered oxygen meters. After that, ethanol was kept sealed to prevent moisture getting in. Bet most have forgotten that BUT they never blamed ethanol, one report suggested imported petrol with silicone in the tanker.

Other Green initiatives such as flamable building insulation, low flush toilets, susceptible to germs and disease, same goes for low temperature washes. The Green blob will not take the blame.

And today a report says that the biomass used at Drax  (Shipped in all the way across the Atlantic with a £ half Billion a year subsidy)  is much more harmful than the coal it replaced!

Apart from Avgas, only Esso have pledged in writing that their Synergy Supreme + with the red label is E0, outside of the ethanol zones. Actually, outside of those zones it is possible that BP Ultimate is also E0 but BP won't admit to it in writing. BP stations have been closed by Eco warriors in the past.

It is not right to suggest all Super unleaded is E0.  Shell V power has been EN228 since 2009.

As for biting a bullet?  I know where the bullet needs to be aimed but while we have some E0, I for one will use it before we lose it. If it is dangerous to put ethanol in an aircraft then it is not safe in my bikes.

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by anna jeannette Dixon at August 18. 2017
Previously david_evans wrote:

As long as you guys continue to mess about with lined tanks and fibreglass tanks then ethanol will be a pain in your arse. Bite the bullet and fit some proper ethanol proof fuel systems, metal tanks, tygon fuel lines. If your old steel tanks are leaking and need lining then buy a new tank. India is your friend.Smile

Hello your Indian friends that make petrol tanks the do not fit right!   yes bit the bullet and buy a duff Indian tank  that will not fit your featherbed frame  my one is 54 wideline   and will not fit right at the front end to sharp a round at the front and they leak too they have bad gas welding so much for biting the bullet spending £250 plus post of £85 quid and then you still have to do the same as an old leaking tank  that fit right  spend the cash on doing the old original tank up its better than a none  fitting tank,              yours  anna j

Re: Ethanol strikes again

Posted by robert_tuck at August 18. 2017

We don't always get the true story, my pal took 3 of his mates up in his plane ,they were all pilots and successfull men ,they only got a few 100 yards before running out of fuel!, luckily a safe landing. Only admitted to it 20 years later. Think for yourself,plenty of stupidity out there.

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